UngeheuerLich
Legend
cool idea
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HP Thresholds
- Thread starter GX.Sigma
- Start date
Frostmarrow
First Post
I'd like spells to do damage and the effect is applied if the victim is reduced to zero hp. Say you cast blindness on an opponent for 1d10 damage. If the victim is reduced to zero hp the opponent is defeated and blind. If the victim still has hp left the opponent is not worse for wear. Yup. The same principles as goes for melee. A long sword is just a bleed spell that does 1d8 damage 5" away.
I've had it with these abstract hit points (that can't be trusted).
Why?! you ask. For the role-play, I say. There is no time playing out a condition in combat. Leave it until later. "Smeg! I got nailed with this spider web and at zero hit points I guess I'm stuck to this wall."
I've had it with these abstract hit points (that can't be trusted).
Why?! you ask. For the role-play, I say. There is no time playing out a condition in combat. Leave it until later. "Smeg! I got nailed with this spider web and at zero hit points I guess I'm stuck to this wall."
KidSnide
Adventurer
I agree that this is a cool idea.
I think the major point is that a hit point threshold is good in the sense that it allows powerful opponents to be finished off with low-level spells. That's fun, plus it helps the PCs avoid the mindset of wondering if they are targeting a 3+3 HD creature or a 4+2 HD creature.
At the same time, the mechanic needs to be tweaked to avoid a guessing game. (E.g. "We know he's taken about 40 points of damage and is seriously wounded. Does that mean he's below 15 or not?") That's not fun. Guessing whether a monster has passed an arbitrary threshold requires thinking about numerical game knowledge, not the in-game fiction at hand.
-KS
I'd like spells to do damage and the effect is applied if the victim is reduced to zero hp. Say you cast blindness on an opponent for 1d10 damage. If the victim is reduced to zero hp the opponent is defeated and blind. If the victim still has hp left the opponent is not worse for wear. Yup. The same principles as goes for melee. A long sword is just a bleed spell that does 1d8 damage 5" away.
I've had it with these abstract hit points (that can't be trusted).
Why?! you ask. For the role-play, I say. There is no time playing out a condition in combat. Leave it until later. "Smeg! I got nailed with this spider web and at zero hit points I guess I'm stuck to this wall."
This is basically the same system as thresholds, but the way it's described means you can apply damage bonuses. Sneak attack sleep spell for the win!!
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
I'm a little torn.
I like the threshold in as much as they say, "X can be autokilled. Y cannot."
I am not fond of them in as much as they say, "You first need to beat the snot out of that ogre before you can Charm him into being your friend, or put him in a magical sleep."
I don't like that latter arc. It implies that even if you don't want to fight your enemies, you HAVE TO, in order to befriend them, or to pass them peacefully.
This absolutely came up in the playtest. A cleric and a wizard wailed on the kobold chief for a few rounds, and then whittled it down to where the wizard could use the magic spell, and then turned it around. That was weird. It didn't make a lot of in-universe sense. I didn't understand how the wizard could tell their spell would work.
So it's a good start, but it needs some work to ground it in reality and to avoid the necessity of butt-kicking your enemies into falling asleep or becoming your friends.
I like the threshold in as much as they say, "X can be autokilled. Y cannot."
I am not fond of them in as much as they say, "You first need to beat the snot out of that ogre before you can Charm him into being your friend, or put him in a magical sleep."
I don't like that latter arc. It implies that even if you don't want to fight your enemies, you HAVE TO, in order to befriend them, or to pass them peacefully.
This absolutely came up in the playtest. A cleric and a wizard wailed on the kobold chief for a few rounds, and then whittled it down to where the wizard could use the magic spell, and then turned it around. That was weird. It didn't make a lot of in-universe sense. I didn't understand how the wizard could tell their spell would work.
So it's a good start, but it needs some work to ground it in reality and to avoid the necessity of butt-kicking your enemies into falling asleep or becoming your friends.
Skyscraper
Explorer
Although the mechanica on limiting the usefulness of weaker spells is interesting, I don't like that the spells require PCs to determine how many hit points a target has.
- So, says Luther the Mage, how many hit points to you think this orc has?
- Hit what?, replies Redgut the dwarf.
- So, says Luther the Mage, how many hit points to you think this orc has?
- Hit what?, replies Redgut the dwarf.
I'd rather they just do with with Charm and Sleep what they want to do with Fireball and Lightning Bolt... make you use a higher spell slot to have more effect.
So keep Sleep as-is where you need to start with 10 or less HP to have it work as a 1st level spell (creatures with more HP can still have the slow effect)... but to have it work on creatures who start with 20 HP, you need to prepare it in a 2nd level slot. Or 30 HP with a 3rd level slot, and so on. So no more knocking creatures below the threshold for the spell to now work... it only works to full effect on those whose total HP are less that what the spell says, depending on the slot you prepared it at.
So keep Sleep as-is where you need to start with 10 or less HP to have it work as a 1st level spell (creatures with more HP can still have the slow effect)... but to have it work on creatures who start with 20 HP, you need to prepare it in a 2nd level slot. Or 30 HP with a 3rd level slot, and so on. So no more knocking creatures below the threshold for the spell to now work... it only works to full effect on those whose total HP are less that what the spell says, depending on the slot you prepared it at.
I am pretty unconvinced by it. I get the intention of HP thresholds, but the whole "mage is just less spell resistant because he has less HP" bit bugs me. This isnt the first post on this, and I have read em all. Just cant get past that little whats-it.
The funny thing is, we used to have HD threshold spells like sleep where (cant remember exactly) > 4HD were immune (or something like that), and that method is actually more valid in 5e than it was back in pre 4e. Why? Well, because of flattened math growth you may just be facing off against a horde of level 1's in the mid to late game and still be challenged by it (stated game design objective direct from the mouths of WOTC)!
In the old days I stopped memorizing sleep because, after a certain point, I never faced an opponent it worked against as putting them against the party was irrelevant. But with 5e you may just face a pack of crafty kobolds when you are higher level and that sleep spell may just have a place in the encounter.
Not saying it works for everything, Im sure there is examples where it is an ill fit. But I do find it amusing that we used HD thresholds in the past, and on the whole they worked, and now, when its looking like they will work better than ever, we are casting it aside for system that binds to a value that is highly variable on a class by class basis, with no real consideration for how it is rewarding who.
The whole situation is a little odd to me.
The funny thing is, we used to have HD threshold spells like sleep where (cant remember exactly) > 4HD were immune (or something like that), and that method is actually more valid in 5e than it was back in pre 4e. Why? Well, because of flattened math growth you may just be facing off against a horde of level 1's in the mid to late game and still be challenged by it (stated game design objective direct from the mouths of WOTC)!
In the old days I stopped memorizing sleep because, after a certain point, I never faced an opponent it worked against as putting them against the party was irrelevant. But with 5e you may just face a pack of crafty kobolds when you are higher level and that sleep spell may just have a place in the encounter.
Not saying it works for everything, Im sure there is examples where it is an ill fit. But I do find it amusing that we used HD thresholds in the past, and on the whole they worked, and now, when its looking like they will work better than ever, we are casting it aside for system that binds to a value that is highly variable on a class by class basis, with no real consideration for how it is rewarding who.
The whole situation is a little odd to me.
Oni
First Post
I'd like spells to do damage and the effect is applied if the victim is reduced to zero hp. Say you cast blindness on an opponent for 1d10 damage. If the victim is reduced to zero hp the opponent is defeated and blind. If the victim still has hp left the opponent is not worse for wear. Yup. The same principles as goes for melee. A long sword is just a bleed spell that does 1d8 damage 5" away.
I've had it with these abstract hit points (that can't be trusted).
Why?! you ask. For the role-play, I say. There is no time playing out a condition in combat. Leave it until later. "Smeg! I got nailed with this spider web and at zero hit points I guess I'm stuck to this wall."
You would have to change the magic system so much for this to work that it would cease to be D&D.
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