Strip "Background" out of classes

[Fifth Element]

Actually, I define modern as "this century". And as you are unable to provide any example of one other than D&D with a rigid class structure my point still stands.

Dragon Age. Lord of the Rings. Both in this century. I'm sure there are reasons why they don't count, or that two is not enough even though you claimed there were none. But anyway, there's an(other) answer for you.

As another point, classless games have been around since 1975, so I hardly see why that trait would qualify a game as modern if D&D, from 1973, is not.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Can you tell me a single bigger (non D20) rpg/edition developed in this century which has such a rigid class structure like D&D?

I would say Warhammer FRP has just as rigid a class structure as D&D. (Maybe you'd disagree, but then we'd just be splitting hairs.)

 

[TrippyHippy]

The most popular game system currently is apparently a game called Pathfinder. Designed in 2008. Class based.

 

[billd91]

But then I grew up and realized I was playing a game.

Yeah, I've encountered this attitude too and found it just as disruptive.

 

[Fifth Element]

The most popular game system currently is apparently a game called Pathfinder. Designed in 2008. Class based.

That doesn't count, because it's based on D&D. And since we already know that D&D cannot be modern (despite it and its relatives still being extremely popular in these modern times), it's irrelevant!

I think that's the idea, anyway.

 

[drothgery]

Actually, I define modern as "this century". And as you are unable to provide any example of one other than D&D with a rigid class structure my point still stands.

Of course, since 2001, d20 has been available to derive games from via the OGL and everyone was familiar with the mechanics from D&D so if you wanted to make a class and level game and weren't starting from it you had to have a very, very good reason.

 

[Sadras]

Remalthalis mentioned the 2e monk kit from the Complete Fighters.

Apologies Hussar I usually do not nitpick but I dislike monks, intensely, and I really like the Fighters Handbook, immensely. Remalthalis did not mention that there was a monk kit in the Complete Fighters. His post stated that the Unarmed Combat Style originated from the Complete Fighters Handbook and that the monk kit from whichever handbook had access to it.

 

[Hussar]

Apologies Hussar I usually do not nitpick but I dislike monks, intensely, and I really like the Fighters Handbook, immensely. Remalthalis did not mention that there was a monk kit in the Complete Fighters. His post stated that the Unarmed Combat Style originated from the Complete Fighters Handbook and that the monk kit from whichever handbook had access to it.

Meh, no worries. I'm not entirely sure which book his monk came out of to be honest. i remember the Complete Fighter had some fairly fun unarmed combat rules - I did play a Complete Priest monk of darkness for a campaign in college - and that's longer ago than I care to talk about.

So, it was possible to create pretty fun and interesting monks in 2e with the complete books. The character I created was pretty much a ninja in all but name.

 

[Derren]

That doesn't count, because it's based on D&D. And since we already know that D&D cannot be modern (despite it and its relatives still being extremely popular in these modern times), it's irrelevant!

I think that's the idea, anyway.

Where have I said that they don't count?

So what do we have?

D&D and its derivates
A PnP created from a video game
A highly specialized LotR game. Although I am a bit surprised about this one.

drothgery makes a good point, though (Fifth, you might want to bookmark as a example how to make them).

Mod Note: We shouldn't have to say this, but... Don't make it personal. Please address the logic of the post, not the person of the poster. Remember that in a reasoned discussion you ought to engage the other person's mind, not their ego. Thank you, all. ~Umbran

 

[Fifth Element]

D&D and its derivates
A PnP created from a video game
A highly specialized LotR game. Although I am a bit surprised about this one.

I can't help but notice you have to keep adding qualifiers to your definition. Now we can't use something based on a video game (because video games aren't modern?), or something that's "specialized", whatever that means.

Also bear in mind that to defeat your claim that there are none, I only need to provide one example, and I have done more than that. The above is not intended to be a complete list. That would take much more time and effort than is worth here.

One point that you have continued to ignore is that D&D and its derivatives remain very popular, likely the most popular. That implies that, even if your definition is accurate, it is inconsequential. So what if a game is "modern" by your shaky definition? If modern gamers still play "non-modern" games, then your definition of modern games needs work.

And you also didn't address the point that classless games have been around since 1975. If something invented in 1975 is modern, surely something invented in 1973 is as well, since you want to bring timelines into it.

drothgery makes a good point, though

He does make a good point, and damages your claim that classless games are necessarily "modern". They can simply be an attempt to differentiate themselved from other games, without being any more advanced or what have you.