Actual functional weapons

[tomBitonti]

Hi,

Does anyone have pointers to actual practical weapon designs? I've been thinking about certain exotic weapons, e.g., a scythe, and wondering if that is simply an impractical weapon.

"Basic" cases seem to be:

Knife (cutting)
Awl (stabbing)
Axe (hacking)
Hammer (bludgeoning)
Hook (special - tripping)

My main issue, though, is to reduce the vast clutter of exotic weapons which provide (what seems to me to be) unreasonable and game breaking benefits. The net of my argument is that a sword is designed as a weapon, while a scythe (for example), is designed as a utility for cutting plants. Regardless of using special abilities (e.g., an exotic weapon proficiency), a scythe should never function as well as a purposed weapon. If you did modify a scythe to make it a pure weapon, wouldn't you end up with one of the many pole arm forms, anyways?

Thx!

TomB

 

[pauljathome]

Hi,

Does anyone have pointers to actual practical weapon designs? I've been thinking about certain exotic weapons, e.g., a scythe, and wondering if that is simply an impractical weapon.

"Basic" cases seem to be:

Knife (cutting)
Awl (stabbing)
Axe (hacking)
Hammer (bludgeoning)
Hook (special - tripping)

My main issue, though, is to reduce the vast clutter of exotic weapons which provide (what seems to me to be) unreasonable and game breaking benefits. The net of my argument is that a sword is designed as a weapon, while a scythe (for example), is designed as a utility for cutting plants. Regardless of using special abilities (e.g., an exotic weapon proficiency), a scythe should never function as well as a purposed weapon. If you did modify a scythe to make it a pure weapon, wouldn't you end up with one of the many pole arm forms, anyways?

Thx!

TomB

If you want actual practical weapons then your best bet is probably to just stick with real historical weapons. If you add in all the ones actually used by various different cultures on at least a semi regular basis in actual combat conditions then you do come up with a (still quite large) set of weapons that are pretty much guaranteed to be practical.

Note that the above explicitly excludes all sorts of weaons as depicted in action adventure movies, especially Hong Kong Martial arts flicks . And all sorts of weapons that were used in ceremonial contexts or in very stylized circumstances (eg, duels, gladitorial weapons, jousts, martial arts tournaments, etc)

But it DOES include all sorts of "not really effective weapons but close enough in an emergency" things like scythes, the traditional monk weapons, etc. While it is true that a scythe shouldn't be as good as a polearm it still is going to be effective. Note that the scythe shown in D&D isn't really what the agricultural scythe looks like .

As a first approximation, dropping all exotic weapons (assuming we're talking D&D) would go a long way. While a few of those are arguably realistic most really aren't (at least as depicted in game stats).

But in most games the only REALLY silly weapons are the ones that have no basis in history. Double picks, really strange staffs, etc

 

[Krensky]

The War Scythe was a common improvised pole weapon. It was popular with peasant uprisings and levies since the base materials (a scythe) and the equipment and skill to make them (a blacksmith and some extra metal) were common.

They look like a fauchard though.

 

[the Jester]

Weapons and armor tended to evolve in response to each other, so depending on what armor you have, you're likely to have different weapons dominating the list.

 

[Derren]

Weapons and armor tended to evolve in response to each other, so depending on what armor you have, you're likely to have different weapons dominating the list.

Which of course requires you to also have actual functioning armor.
Also, if you want the iconic plate armor, don't forget that it was also, among other things, a response to firearms.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

Pretty much all of the above. The bill (hook) as a weapon was very little different from the prunning implement. Not much is said about the big, two-handed threshing flails being used as weapons, but I would imagine that they must have been. Heck, rocks and tree branches (clubs) are the oldest weapons ever!

 

[Umbran]

Also, if you want the iconic plate armor, don't forget that it was also, among other things, a response to firearms.

Given that plate armors (1) started in partial form as far back as Greek and Roman times, before those firearms, and (2) do actually protect against melee weapons, I don't see as the firearms are really required to justify the armor.

Which is to say, the path to the weapons and armor ought to be plausible. It need not exactly mirror real Earth history, however.

 

[Halivar]

Which of course requires you to also have actual functioning armor.
Also, if you want the iconic plate armor, don't forget that it was also, among other things, a response to firearms.

Naw, it was firearms that ended the use of plate armor, starting with Gustavus Adolphus's heavy infantry, who would actually discard their breastplates if issued them. By the Napoleonic era, most "cuirassiers" were nothing of the sort.

 

[Halivar]

Just about every weird, wacky configuration of stick and sharp metal has been tried historically. Typically you'll find that the weapons that are used the longest and most effectively are those that offer long-range stabbiness or close-range cuttiness or choppiness. This is a guideline, not a rule, mind you, and lasts only until the age of gunpowder. Foot lance had its last hurrah in the tercios of the 30 years war. After that, all reach weapons were either mounted lance or guns on foot.

 

[Stormonu]

Hi,

The net of my argument is that a sword is designed as a weapon, while a scythe (for example), is designed as a utility for cutting plants. Regardless of using special abilities (e.g., an exotic weapon proficiency), a scythe should never function as well as a purposed weapon.

A large selection of "real" weapons started out as farm implements or improvised weapons.

flail - used to thresh wheat
pick - modified from the mining instrument
trident/fork - pitchfork modified for war
battleaxe - modified wood chopping axe
mace - a tree limb, replaced with a metal stick
spear - putting your dagger on a long stick
bow - shooting your dagger at a foe
sword - a dagger-polearm
sling - using your belt to throw a rock

The fact is, the scythe being used for war was never designed for cutting plants, just as a battleaxe was never designed to cut wood. The war scythe is probably reinforced - with a better tempered blade - and used for beheading or gutting foes. The idea for a war scythe probably came from the farm implement, but the one listed on the weapon table in D&D is designed for combat - and would probably be unwieldy and awkward if used on the farm.