Your experiences with (quasi-)historical settings for D&D

[Li Shenron]

Thanks to those who suggested Ars Magica and Pendragon (but sorry to [MENTION=9037]Elf Witch[/MENTION], cannot xp you again yet), I have checked the web for info about these two RPG, so I am beginning to get a better idea about what I would like to play.

Ars Magica has a starting point that is just perfect to what I had in mind without realizing it: (#1) a historical Europe with real-world countries and religion but with the added caveat that everything belonging to religious belief, folklore and superstition is simply true. OTOH the problem with this game is that it is for wizard PCs only, so presumably you cannot easily drop-in PCs of other classes because you would have to convert them to the Ars Magica system, which presumably is balanced only with regards to wizards. Also it seems like wizards are too organized and socially powerful in the world, and this maybe means that the setting will have to consider what are the consequences for everyone else in the world (e.g. magic as technology).

Pendragon is quite the opposite, because it assumes that magic is not for the PCs, who are presumably instead all fighters, rogues and other non-spellcasters, so once again I would have to think how to adapt spellcasters into Pendragon's rules system, not something I would really like to spend my time doing. The idea that Pendragon encompasses a large historical timeframe from early to late middle ages may actually relieve the DM from the responsibility of being really historically accurate. Another winning point for me is the idea (#2) that adventures happen rarely (1/year), which matches very well with the idea that even if monsters are real, they are rare enough so that you don't have to figure out how society adapts to their existence.

Those 2ed green books also sound interesting, at least the one about Charlemagne's period, but I didn't find much info on the content. Presumably it is grounded in AD&D 2ed rules, which I wouldn't really want to use.

Anyway now I'm beginning to see where I'd like to go... here's some draft list of wanted features:

- key idea (#1) from Ars Magica
- key idea (#2) from Pendragon
- some level of historical accuracy, but at the same time it should not be a burden on the DM or the players
- better if set in real medieval Europe, so that geographycal maps will be freely available on the web at every scale, and political relationships between countries or centres of powers are rich and well-defined (and also easily available also on the web)
- it should be possible to play traditional D&D character classes, as long as they fit either with medieval Europe reality or folklore (basically all 3ed core classes except Monk, but also non-core classes)
- to avoid issues such as figuring out the implications of magic being real on the world, it should probably be enough to rely on the rarity of the people who can actually use magic
- I don't need non-human characters to be playable, but either way it might be best that their races are treated as outsiders to human society and rare in the world

I suppose this is essentially a setting issue rather than a rule system issue after all, so that it could be playable with any rules system of preference, e.g. 5e playtest rules

 

[Derren]

Actually the mages in Ars Magica are in hiding. Thats why history wasn't changed through their presence.

But yes, if you are only looking for combat then non wizards will have a hard time in AM.

 

[Mark CMG]

I've run a number of Arthurian games using D&D as a ruleset as well as running Prince Valiant and playing in an Ars Magica Napoleonic game.

 

[Li Shenron]

Actually the mages in Ars Magica are in hiding. Thats why history wasn't changed through their presence.

Ok, that's good... I think however it would be even better if they weren't organized at all, or if they were more like alchemists or sorcerers.

 

[Elf Witch]

Thanks to those who suggested Ars Magica and Pendragon (but sorry to [MENTION=9037]Elf Witch[/MENTION], cannot xp you again yet), I have checked the web for info about these two RPG, so I am beginning to get a better idea about what I would like to play.

Ars Magica has a starting point that is just perfect to what I had in mind without realizing it: (#1) a historical Europe with real-world countries and religion but with the added caveat that everything belonging to religious belief, folklore and superstition is simply true. OTOH the problem with this game is that it is for wizard PCs only, so presumably you cannot easily drop-in PCs of other classes because you would have to convert them to the Ars Magica system, which presumably is balanced only with regards to wizards. Also it seems like wizards are too organized and socially powerful in the world, and this maybe means that the setting will have to consider what are the consequences for everyone else in the world (e.g. magic as technology).

Pendragon is quite the opposite, because it assumes that magic is not for the PCs, who are presumably instead all fighters, rogues and other non-spellcasters, so once again I would have to think how to adapt spellcasters into Pendragon's rules system, not something I would really like to spend my time doing. The idea that Pendragon encompasses a large historical timeframe from early to late middle ages may actually relieve the DM from the responsibility of being really historically accurate. Another winning point for me is the idea (#2) that adventures happen rarely (1/year), which matches very well with the idea that even if monsters are real, they are rare enough so that you don't have to figure out how society adapts to their existence.

Those 2ed green books also sound interesting, at least the one about Charlemagne's period, but I didn't find much info on the content. Presumably it is grounded in AD&D 2ed rules, which I wouldn't really want to use.

Anyway now I'm beginning to see where I'd like to go... here's some draft list of wanted features:

- key idea (#1) from Ars Magica
- key idea (#2) from Pendragon
- some level of historical accuracy, but at the same time it should not be a burden on the DM or the players
- better if set in real medieval Europe, so that geographycal maps will be freely available on the web at every scale, and political relationships between countries or centres of powers are rich and well-defined (and also easily available also on the web)
- it should be possible to play traditional D&D character classes, as long as they fit either with medieval Europe reality or folklore (basically all 3ed core classes except Monk, but also non-core classes)
- to avoid issues such as figuring out the implications of magic being real on the world, it should probably be enough to rely on the rarity of the people who can actually use magic
- I don't need non-human characters to be playable, but either way it might be best that their races are treated as outsiders to human society and rare in the world

I suppose this is essentially a setting issue rather than a rule system issue after all, so that it could be playable with any rules system of preference, e.g. 5e playtest rules

I have several of the green books and yes they use the 2E ruleset but they are still full of useful information I think they are great reference books as well as the GURPS ones on ancient civilizations. I love the book on Egypt.

I also have the D20 books on running an Arthurain and Ancient Greek campaign. My books are still packed and I can't off hand remember who published them. I used the Greek one as the basis of a game I wanted to run. There are things I didn't like about like how they did the gods portfolios I don't see Hades as evil. So I made my own list of portfolios for the gods. But if you just want flavor and like the D20 system then they are nice to have.

 

[Nytmare]

I played a ton of Ars (an absolutely amazing game), but for D&D there were only a handful of failed starts, and one 2 or 3 year campaign that was a "historic moving towards fantasy" game. All of them were early 90s AD&D.

In retrospect, that campaign was a LOT like the anime Berserk (Berserk (manga) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

The game had started off as a (not all that realistic) group of missionaries who stumble onto, and are eventually forced to try to disassemble, a network of tyrant lords. The more tyrants we overthrew, and kings we beheaded, the more we exposed an evil cult masquerading as a new branch of Catholicism.

After about a year or so into the game we stumbled across the first real bits of fantasy: a curse placed on the paladin by a king's newly severed head, rumors of haunted or monster infested woods that we eventually discovered were true. Unfortunately, as is so often the case, the moment that things started getting really interesting, players started moving away and getting new jobs.

 

[WildWestGM]

There was a company that released for V. 3.5 several historical books based upon Richard the Lionheart and Robin Hood. When I was in college in the late 1980s, I bought a sourcebook of Richard the Lionheart that listed every major political figure as well as described all the geographical areas. I took that with all the Robin Hood D&D sourcebooks and created a 12th century England to game. It was very fun. There was very limited magic.
I have all the books in my basement packed away.

 

[TerraDave]

Good sources include many, many GURPS sourcebooks. These are fairly mechanics light and always have interesting stuff in them.

There was all sorts of 3E stuff with a historical bent. My favorite was Green Ronin's Testament: biblical D&D! I think they also did a Greek myth one, a pirate one, a medieval one...

 

[Lanefan]

My current setting uses various aspects of real-world history and culture - or at least waves at it on the way by...but it's a complete mashup where things that were greatly separated in time in our world (Sumerians - Romans - Vikings - Renaissance) all run concurrently.

The core land is based on a Xena-like version of classical Greece. To the north are various forms of Celts; further north are the Norse. West of the Celts are Renaissance-type English, always too busy fighting each other to be much threat to anyone else. To the south is a reclusive culture based on an Aztec-Incan mashup; further south are Sumerians. Across the sea are the Romans. Beyond the eastern mountains is a desert with various typical desert cultures. And amongst all these are some Human cultures not directly supported by our history - the pirate kingdom, the evil empire ruled by undead, and so on.

And in between all these are the Elves (everywhere), Dwarves, Hobbits; Hobgoblins (all over the desert), Orcs and other monsters (everywhere), etc.

As for historical accuracy: can't be bothered, for the most part. For example, my Norse pantheon is nothing at all like the real-world one (various deities are missing, others changed, etc.); but it gets the point across, which in the end is all I really need it to do.

Lanefan

 

[Nytmare]

My current setting uses various aspects of real-world history and culture - or at least waves at it on the way by...but it's a complete mashup where things that were greatly separated in time in our world (Sumerians - Romans - Vikings - Renaissance) all run concurrently

You might enjoy this series: Rally Cry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a scenario I've often considered running as a game world.