Why are people not interested in RPG?

[Umbran]

If being a gamer or any other hobby could effect your job then common sense says keep it to yourself. And I have never once said otherwise. But just assuming because the kids treated you badly in high school means that every non gamer is going to do so as adults is really kind of silly.

Who said anyone was assuming "every non-gamer" did anything? I don't know about you, but I am presuming that the folks who don't talk about it at work are doing so based off an assessment of the tolerances of their coworkers, with some thought as to the risk vs the benefit involved. I was kind of approaching this from the, "we probably shouldn't tell others what do to, 'cause they know their business better than we" angle.

But that is not the same as hiding it from your friends, family or spouse. Hiding stuff from those people implies you are ashamed of your hobby.

I agree that hiding it by actively lying to your spouse and family suggests there's something unfortunate in those relationships. You don't get to pick your family, so maybe that's not fully in your control. Of your father or aunt is a bit extreme on the subject, you can't help that, and maybe avoidance is a viable alternative to confrontation. But your spouse? Unless you're in an arranged marriage, you chose your spouse. If you can't tell your spouse, there is something wrong.

But I still say it isn't necessarily shame. But I figure I clarified my definitions on that upthread, so I shan't repeat myself.

You are taking an extreme view on what I said. You said that it is not your responsibility but the gaming company to get new players my point if you feel that way fine but don't whine if the hobby dies.

My reductio ad absurdum counter:

For the past three years, I've been putting my charity efforts to supporting breast cancer research. I've had several friends choose to not donate when given the opportunity.

The logic you seem to be presenting, applied to my (admittedly more extreme) case, would have me tell them, "Well, if you don't donate, and your Mom dies of breast cancer, I don't want to hear you whine about it." I don't buy that as an angle.

 

[Elf Witch]

Who said anyone was assuming "every non-gamer" did anything? I don't know about you, but I am presuming that the folks who don't talk about it at work are doing so based off an assessment of the tolerances of their coworkers, with some thought as to the risk vs the benefit involved. I was kind of approaching this from the, "we probably shouldn't tell others what do to, 'cause they know their business better than we" angle.



I agree that hiding it by actively lying to your spouse and family suggests there's something unfortunate in those relationships. You don't get to pick your family, so maybe that's not fully in your control. Of your father or aunt is a bit extreme on the subject, you can't help that, and maybe avoidance is a viable alternative to confrontation. But your spouse? Unless you're in an arranged marriage, you chose your spouse. If you can't tell your spouse, there is something wrong.

But I still say it isn't necessarily shame. But I figure I clarified my definitions on that upthread, so I shan't repeat myself.





My reductio ad absurdum counter:

For the past three years, I've been putting my charity efforts to supporting breast cancer research. I've had several friends choose to not donate when given the opportunity.

The logic you seem to be presenting, applied to my (admittedly more extreme) case, would have me tell them, "Well, if you don't donate, and your Mom dies of breast cancer, I don't want to hear you whine about it." I don't buy that as an angle.

Like I said you know best what will fly at your place of work which is why I would never tell anyone anything about their job. I am saying that people who had it rough in school or in other jobs may let that experience sour them on trusting any new fellow workers. And again if you are more comfortable keeping your private life private at work then do so.

I was not the one who first brought up work I have been talking about hiding your hobby from the people in your life you are close to. I will tell you I have been there and it was not worth it. I had horses when I was in my early 20s. My dad hated them because his best friend sister had been killed on one and he made me promise never to ride.

Not only did I ride but I barrel raced and did show jumping. I hid this very important part of my life from my dad. I hated lying to him but I did because I didn't want to upset him. I also trained my child not to talk about horses so basically I was teaching my child to hide things. Years later he told me he knew because he had read about me in a newspaper article and he was really hurt that I hadn't told him. He said e would have not liked it but as an adult I had the right to chose things for myself.

So I don't think it is healthy to lie and hide things from someone if they are close to you. There is also a difference between not talking about it and running around hiding the evidence every time they visit.

Again you are reading more into what I am saying. I have not said that every gamer needs to be active in trying to bring new gamers into the hobby. And if you don't you are some how guilty of killing the hobby. Your breast cancer is a perfect example of what I am saying not everybody can contribute money some people may be supporting a different cause. But that is not the same as saying I want a cure for breast cancer but it is the American Cancer Society job to raise awareness and money not mine and then complaining when they don't raise enough.



The OP asked why are people not interested in RPGs and I maintain that for some the stigma attached to gaming does not help get people interested. And that it does not help if gamers act like playing RPGs is something to be kept secret because they are embarrassed.

 

[Elf Witch]

Yeah if you use make up right it's all cool - not that I don't generally like it, but I'd suck at applying it and can't have anything around my eyes, chronic eye infection. But I had a friend who wore make up from age 16 and her skin looked very old later. I guess she was doing it wrong but I'm weary of the stuff.

I don't have many fan related shirts anymore, as I've stopped going to cons, but they were generally to expensive to me to wear daily Husband and me wear mostly the same clothes so I have few lady things. Men's wear is much more comfortable anyway. In any case, I was specifically talking about gaming groups, so I know little about what anyone wears elsewhere, save for the few people who come directly from work sometimes and so wear their work clothes. And strangely, the sloppiest dresser at work is the teacher

A lot of nerds are on the autism spectrum, some without even knowing it.

If she looks old it is most likely sun damage or not taking the stuff off every night. I am a fanatic about sunscreen every day on my face and always washing and putting on moisturizer at night. And my skin has few wrinkles and no sun damage.

Eye make up is a no no if you have eye infections especially mascara so may woman don't realize that if you get an eye infection any product that you used while you were getting it needs to be thrown out because it will keep infecting the eye over ad over again.

I think we may be talking at cross purposes because I am not talking about what you wear gaming or hanging out with your nerd friends. I have known nerds who don't own anything else and don't understand why their family is upset that they wore their Darth Vader shirt to their sister's wedding or grandma funeral.

My roommate Linda lives in T shirts mainly black ones I got her a shirt that says I will stop wearing black when I find something darker. But she has some good interview, fancy, party outfits and some cute casual shirts for occasions when a t is not the best choice. She never wears make up and her hair is long enough to sit on. She puts it up for work. This is just who she is.

I am not trying to be really judgmental here I don't judge people on what they wear. But my point is that a lot of people do and dressing to fit into the mainstream can be helpful especially if you are looking for a job or a date or if you are at the companies picnic and you don't work for a gaming company.

I know how expensive they are to buy. I once spent 35.00 dollars on a silk screened T with Beauty and the Beast on it from the 80s TV show.

But not all autistic people react to the same thing I have a friend who can't handle noise it drives her crazy she can't go to the movies because of people eating pop corn yet she is a huge fashionista.

I am sure there are autistic spectrum people who become nerds but there are also people who become nerds because they are intelligent , because they don't fit in any where else or because their parents were nerds and they were raised to be nerds. Most of the kids I knew back when my son was a child during the 80s whose parents were into Sf fandom, gaming ,in the SCA grew up to be nerds mine did. The ones that didn't well we joke about how heartbreaking that some how a nerd raised a mundane.

 

[Elf Witch]

I don't think t-shirts are the problem. They are the standard uniform of American males. Not wearing a t-shirt is dressing up.

Slovenly dress might be better determined by the cleanliness/wear and staining on clothes. Somebody who wears their favorite ketchup stained t-shirt to my house is somebody who didn't take the time to dress better than their yardwork clothes.

As for fatness being a "warning sign", all I can say is some people wear fat better than others. Some people are overweight, but do not project an aura of lazy, over-eating slob who's going to break my chairs. I think I nailed all the keywords that turn off others around some over-weight people. Overweight-ism is a complex problem that asking "have you tried not being fat?" is a stupid question. However, perhaps the difference between negative-fatness and acceptable overweightedness is the appearance of trying.

Bingo. When I see an overweight person and their clothes are to small or just as bad way to big their hair is unkempt and they have this whole defeated air about them that says I don't care I feel sorry for them but I also get warning bells going off in my head that this is the kind of person who is going to be a huge emotional drain because they are so unhappy and they are comfortable being unhappy so nothing will ever change.

And as someone who is over weight and has been struggling with it for awhile now I know that there is a temptation to just give up to want to become invisible. I still sometimes hate going out by myself and it is hard to met new people but I make myself I made an effort to break the I will do so and so when I lose weight.

 

[The Red King]

I disagree if the only examples of gamers are the ones shown on Big Bang and the stereotypical live in the basement nerd who has never been laid then that has the potential to turn off people who don't view themselves that way.

Why should someone young want to play a game that the very people who play are ashamed of?

I play, and I am open about it. I am not the typical gamer. When I tell people that I play RPG's, Heroclix or other stuff, they usually say "really? You dont look like the type". I take that opening to tell them that not everyone that plays games like that are like the stereotype. Not every plumber is fat with his but crack hanging out of his pants and not every cop eats donuts!

I think the show is funny too. Like a lot of comedy it is based on some truths.

Well if you don't care and the hobby dies then don't whine about when it happens.

When they came for the gamers there was no one to speak up for me...

 

[Chairman7w]

Yep, you answered the question. Those are the reasons.

- some people think that in a RPG most of what you do is drama-acting in character, making elaborate speeches in funny voices, and they find the idea incredibly lame
- some people are seriously scared by the complexity of the game, formulas and structures put them off, they think it is required to learn a lot of rules and they believe they will never be able to do so or that otherwise it will take a long time and lots of headaches ("it feels like school")
- some people just don't sync with the fantasy flavor, dragons and monsters are just not "cool" in their opinion
- some people have a very bad image of gamers in general, and they are scared by the idea that if they join the game they will have to spend the night with immature nerds in heavy metal t-shirts

I think that we gamers ourselves can be responsible for these... and that we should make room for more casual gamers in our games.

What other motives have you encountered in your own experience?

 

[Elf Witch]

I play, and I am open about it. I am not the typical gamer. When I tell people that I play RPG's, Heroclix or other stuff, they usually say "really? You dont look like the type". I take that opening to tell them that not everyone that plays games like that are like the stereotype. Not every plumber is fat with his but crack hanging out of his pants and not every cop eats donuts!



When they came for the gamers there was no one to speak up for me...

This is what I mean. I am Wiccan and so many people are surprised because I don't wear black and skulls or go the other route and have long gauze dresses with tons of crystals on. So I get you don't look like a Wiccan or a pagan.

There is nothing wrong with dressing like that but a lot of us don't.

 

[ggroy]

You are taking an extreme view on what I said. You said that it is not your responsibility but the gaming company to get new players my point if you feel that way fine but don't whine if the hobby dies. Because the gaming companies can only do so much. We the actual people in the hobby can do things that can help bring in new people.

I have more or less completely given up on actively recruiting any new non-gamers to my previous D&D games. (This includes non-gamers and ex-gamers who are heavily into stuff like Star Trek, Star Wars, Games of Thrones, etc ...).

Over the years I have found that actively recruiting non-gamers to D&D games, can be very detrimental to the game if the recruiting methods are very high pressure. The more high pressure the recruiting tactics, the less likely somebody will want to play again.


In another scenario, I have found that individuals who owed me some favors, frequently used my D&D games as the easiest most passive-aggressive way to pay me back for previous favors I did for them. Typically these "obligation" type gamers, would just sit there tuned out and not really wanting to be there. As far as they're concerned, it's free pizza and they're just biding their time away until the favor is "repaid". After awhile they just let their character die in a combat encounter or a "save vs. death" type situation, where they subsequently just walk away from the game. After that, I can't argue anymore that they "owe" me for a past favor. (ie. I can't prove conclusively it was all a charade, where they were "tuned out" and just "biding their time" over several months).

 

[ggroy]

One big sign a player is an "obligation" type player who is just "biding their time" away, are ones who purposely spend most of their time at the game table doing stuff like:

- playing video games
- surfing the net
- watching television
- reading a book
- etc ...

instead of paying attention to the game.

Every time they are called to do something, such as combat, they just doing something like swing a sword at the nearest badguy to them. Roleplaying is entirely absent, other than when they want to be disruptive (such as making tons of noise in-game to attract attention from wandering monsters and other badguys).


For awhile, one such "obligation" player was spending all their time watching dvds on my home theater system in the rec room where we also played D&D. (This person brought their own dvds to watch). One time I took the dvd player away from the room, just to see what this person would do. This person ended up spending the entire game session watching reruns of CSI instead. At the time, this was when I came to the realization I was being played for a fool by this person, as a way to pay back some favors in a half assed manner with minimal effort on their part.

Since then, I absolutely refuse to play any rpg games with people who I suspect is an "obligation player".

 

[Harlock]

Once upon a time there was a role-playing game not bogged down in minutiae. New players could pick up the game in a session. If they wanted to get serious, they could read pages B3 - B18 and know just about everything they needed for their character. If they wanted to get really serious, they could read the combat and adventure sections up to page B27. And, if they wanted to DM, they could read up to page B64 and have all of the information they needed from Monsters to Treasure to random dungeon generation. All of this could be had for a month's allowance, or less, if you were a kid, and for about the same cost as buying movie tickets for a family of four, or a fast food meal for a family at the time.

And, if that game interested you and you played it enough, there were rules for characters who progressed and became stronger still. If you didn't have time to make adventures, that was covered as well and only ran about a week's allowance or a couple of movie tickets, an album, or a fast food meal for two. It was cheap and easy to get into. The game was easy enough for kids and could be as involved or lighthearted as your adult group could want. By not being bogged down with rules for everything, it was actually able to do more than if it had had a more complicated and codified set of rules. And, if someone wanted something intricate and really involved, it was simple to add to the streamlined set of rules to make it as fussy as your heart desired.

Introducing such a game to new players was easy. If roleplaying was intimidating to them you could easily break out a game board with pawns or minis and just call it a tabletop board game and ease them into thinking in character. It still wasn't for everyone, but there was a far lower barrier of time and money to invest just to see if you might enjoy it, and that is where BECMI D&D shone brightest.

I would love to see a day when gamers would be accepting of a system like that again. And, I really mean to say D&D system because it does have the name recognition and market share to be mainstream again, if only we'd let it.

Obviously, this is my romantic and nostalgic opinion. Yours does and will vary, and that is cool.