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Of Steam Tunnels and LARPing

There is a serious disdain, if not outright prejudice, among those in the SCA (or at least, there used to be back when I attended events with my wife in the 90's) for those who enjoy D&D.

Broad brush. Beware.

Just this afternoon, I'm taking part in a game run by a SCA fighting legend, a gent good enough to have won the crown in tournament a couple times. He's got no disdain for RPG or larp. I think every person in the game has spent time in the SCA.

The guy who currently runs our local fighter practice is a long-time gamer.

So, while *some* might have such, it is by no means universal.
 

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The real disdain always seemed to be between the SCAdian fighters, and the two or three boffer groups, PRO (a NERO offshoot), Circle of Swords, and Dagorhir. The point of contention tended to boil down to the SCAdians accusing the LARPers of being wimps who used foam weapons, and the LARPers accusing the SCAdians of being brutish gorillas who just stood around in the sun hitting each other all day.

From where I sit, the "edition warring" between the NERO, Alliance, and other groups from that same stem, has always far outweighed any fiction between SCA and larpers. Early on, the combat games had some deep serious politicking surrounding their various splits, and there was some ugly bad blood.
 

From my college's wiki site, that dorm is currently famous for being a hangout for the role playing group we founded which is apparently still active, and it mentions LARPers practicing the basement ballroom, but they're apparently unaware of the subbasement or it's uses 2 decades ago . . . so I'm not posting the college or building it's in. Me to know and a later generation to find out. ;)
MSU's Wikipedia page doesn't mention their 8.5 miles steam tunnels at all, even on the page dedicated to describing the physical campus. Somethings, universities would rather you "discover on your own." Once your there, after you've already paid your tuition. ;)

well, I have one or two data point to supply:

I clearly remember seeing people playing D&D with some LARP-ish elements at some event- I think an academic team or model UN tourney- around 1984-85. The kids involved were probably junior high age.
The jives with my own antidotal evidence of the last time I heard someone talk about playing D&D in a live action context.

That would have been contemporary, roughly, with the description that the author was writing. I remember the 'D&D is Satanic' stuff coming along around the same time or slightly later, but it was still remote enough that kids from a rural county in the Bible Belt were openly running around with cardboard swords and dice at a school sponsored event without anyone blinking.
The events in the book happened in 1979, the book was published in 1984.

FWIW, The last of the three AD&D 1e books was published in 1979. The book Mazes and Monsters came out in 1981, and the TV Movie came out in 1982. Patricia Pulling's son, Irving, committed suicide in 1982. In 1984, Lorraine Williams was hired by TSR.

So, I think we're dealing with a transitional period in D&D. The transition from D&D to AD&D, the end of it's first boom, and by '84 Pulling is just starting to really cause TSR serious problems. (She formed Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons in '83.)

I would imagine that an outsider observing that would have called it something like 'live action' D&D, given that people were sneaking off to the boiler room to 'explore the Caverns of Central Heating', or whatever, but there wasn't a lot of 'system' to it beyond regular D&D rules. It wouldn't surprise me if, prior to the general parent/authority figure freak-out regarding RPGs, this kind of thing wasn't a little more common.
I think you've hit it on the head. Now that we're all on the other side of the D&D is occult and such, few people want to admit to acting it out.

Also worth noting that the late 70's was probably an early high-water mark for the campus culture of roof and tunnel hacking- security wasn't as complex, and schools weren't cracking down on the practice yet. Geek-ish D&D players taking advantage of their access to unauthorized places to game in an unusual or atmospheric setting might easily be distorted by the campus grapevine into 'the D&D nerds sneak into the tunnels to play D&D for real'.
The book I read shows MSU had strong motivations for denying that students went down into the tunnels. They were dangerous, so they didn't want to be responsible for any harm they came to. Also, people were using them to commit crimes (burglary, for example). Given that student's weren't allowed down there, none of them wanted to admit that they went down there. (Of course they clearly did. Tables with paper-mache heads and signs that read "Please wait to be seated" don't show up in steam tunnel alcoves by themselves.)

If this is indicative of what happened at other schools, I wouldn't be surprised.

LARP here gets made fun of for the foam weapons a lot. I don't quite get why, as people would complain a lot more would they use real swords.
Yep. First you get called wimps for using fake swords, then you get called crazy for using the real deal. It almost like they don't understand the appeal!
 

From where I sit, the "edition warring" between the NERO, Alliance, and other groups from that same stem, has always far outweighed any fiction between SCA and larpers.

Yeah, I wasn't going to delve deeper into the infighting within the groups, the groups' sub-groups, and the groups' sub-groups' sub-sub-groups.

I would have filled a couple of pages with all the political bs and drama.
 

Broad brush. Beware.

Just this afternoon, I'm taking part in a game run by a SCA fighting legend, a gent good enough to have won the crown in tournament a couple times. He's got no disdain for RPG or larp. I think every person in the game has spent time in the SCA.

The guy who currently runs our local fighter practice is a long-time gamer.

So, while *some* might have such, it is by no means universal.

Sadly, the big reason I dropped out of the SCA was the attitude I kept running across - I'd been to events in Georgia, Mississippi (primarily - Gulf Wars), Louisiana and Tennessee, and kept running into prejudice against D&Der's - primarily in an attitude of those who played D&D didn't know how to do research (or how to "really" fight).

I'm glad to hear it's not universal, I don't know how I kept running into all the negativity. Wasn't like I was pestering folks about D&D and I avoided taking my D&D stuff along to events - often my wife would mention in conversation I play D&D, and from there it was like I killed someone's puppy.

As I said, it was bad enough to make me avoid the SCA after a few years of it, and I'm sorry if I painted too broad a brush on folks over it.
 

Also worth noting that the late 70's was probably an early high-water mark for the campus culture of roof and tunnel hacking- security wasn't as complex, and schools weren't cracking down on the practice yet. Geek-ish D&D players taking advantage of their access to unauthorized places to game in an unusual or atmospheric setting might easily be distorted by the campus grapevine into 'the D&D nerds sneak into the tunnels to play D&D for real'.

I think its worth noting that the 70's were a fairly wierd time and that D&D had, quite unintentionally, got itself mixed up in the wierdness of the time. One of the first adopters of D&D I know 1st hand, old enough to have played OD&D, was a communal new age group where the communal leader was the DM. Likewise, there weren't a lot of 'gaming stores' as we know them, and one of the few places I knew of in town that carried the AD&D hardbacks was an occult book store. Another older gamer I knew of at the time was in college. Her DM really did decide that anyone who played an M-U had to memorize and recite a suitably arcane verbal component in order to cast a spell in game, for example, fireball's verbal component was the charm of making from the movie Excalibur (you know, "Anáil nathrach orth bhais beth..."). Apparantly, they found nothing odd about going down to the local occult bookstore and buying Hermetic tradition spellbooks for inspiration and having these on the table along side the rule books, so that they were actually chanting 'spells' to cast the spells in the game.

I also personally new a group slightly older than I was (I am fledgling DM in elementary school at the time) that heavily mixed D&D with drug use (that 70's show style, only with D&D).

I expect that there was a lot of 'experimental' gaming going on at the time.

You can imagine how all this had to look to someone on the outside when the idea of a RPG was utterly alien and had to be explained in every precept.
 
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And there were reports of this going on at other colleges. (E.g., Southern Methodist University.)


No friggin way. I went to SMU, and I've been in the steam tunnels.

They are pitch black like a cave.

They are a claustrophobic 3 feet wide and 5 feet tall.

These tunnels have 5-foot drops straight down with no warning. They have random pipes that criss-cross the middle of the tunnel, again without warning.

The tunnels are as old as the university itself, and the decaying utility crap in there is an awesome way to get respiratory diseases (asbestos is a huge concern).

The tunnels, as cool as they are, are in no possible way conductive to LARPing of any kind. Too cramped and far too dangerous.
 

The tunnels, as cool as they are, are in no possible way conductive to LARPing of any kind. Too cramped and far too dangerous.

Yeah, we used to sneak around in the steam tunnel system between Pitt and CMU, and though it was exciting, not only were you constantly in danger of whacking your head off of something sharp and rusty, but for most of the trip you couldn't hear each other talk without shouting.

It was fun to creep and crawl through, but I don't think we ever found a place where we could comfortably hang out or play games. There were quieter sections below some of the dorms that we (one of the resident student groups) were allowed to use at Halloween for a Haunted House, but it was fairly well traveled by custodians and other school employees.
 

No friggin way. I went to SMU, and I've been in the steam tunnels.

<snip>

The tunnels, as cool as they are, are in no possible way conductive to LARPing of any kind. Too cramped and far too dangerous.
I was waiting for someone to confirm or refute that.

It sounds like the tunnels are worse than the ones at MSU. They weren't exactly hospitable, but SMU sounds like it was more so.
 

I remember hearing the story all those years ago, and my first thought was "Are you kidding me?!?!?!?"

As time has passed, I still have never thought that gaming in the tunnels sounded like fun...
 

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