Anitomical Damage?
- Thread starter Darathin
- Start date
According to SRD, One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.
You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance. As a move action, you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction, though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever exceeds the spell’s range.
You would need to define unattended in game terms.
according to google,
unattended [ˌʌnəˈtɛndɪd]adj1. not looked after or cared for
2. unaccompanied or alone
3. not listened to
One could argue that the cerebral cortex is a non magical unattended object.
Example. I have a penis, its a part of my body, but this does not mean that at any given point in time its being attended to.
You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance. As a move action, you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction, though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever exceeds the spell’s range.
You would need to define unattended in game terms.
according to google,
unattended [ˌʌnəˈtɛndɪd]adj1. not looked after or cared for
2. unaccompanied or alone
3. not listened to
One could argue that the cerebral cortex is a non magical unattended object.
Example. I have a penis, its a part of my body, but this does not mean that at any given point in time its being attended to.
Dandu
First Post
That's a sad problem that must be rectified immediately by the purchase of booze and hookers.
(I apologize, but the alternative joke was about how you shouldn't objectify people. However, I have made that joke recently and would hate to overuse it.)
(For a more rules-oriented response, consider that you have no line of effect to a cerebral cortex.)
(I apologize, but the alternative joke was about how you shouldn't objectify people. However, I have made that joke recently and would hate to overuse it.)
(For a more rules-oriented response, consider that you have no line of effect to a cerebral cortex.)
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Not the point. The description only describes the weight of the object you can pick up, It does not state that the force of mage hand is only 5 pounds of force.
Its the concept of the spell that is used, the spirit of the rule. the idea, not the literal wording, the literal wording is a guide line, the DM says what goes. No DM in the world would let you apply and infinite amount of force behind mage hand, even though the descriptor doesn't put a limit on the PSI behind this 5 pound object, or the speed that you can move it.
With an good understanding of physics and the appropriate formulas one could do some messed up stuff with Mage hands vague description.
Just like with a good understanding of the human anatomy one could argue for severing the spinal cord for paralysis, or damaging the cerebral cortex for insta death.
I'm just trying to get general idea for implementing a LITTLE more detail to injury then hit point loss.
For example, a giant crits you in the face with a bolder it would make sense to me if you get a little dizzy. just "that really hurt, and your now having a hard time focusing"
This does not mean that im looking to define rules to take into account aneurisms or brain damage.
Its the concept of the spell that is used, the spirit of the rule. the idea, not the literal wording, the literal wording is a guide line, the DM says what goes. No DM in the world would let you apply and infinite amount of force behind mage hand, even though the descriptor doesn't put a limit on the PSI behind this 5 pound object, or the speed that you can move it.
With an good understanding of physics and the appropriate formulas one could do some messed up stuff with Mage hands vague description.
Just like with a good understanding of the human anatomy one could argue for severing the spinal cord for paralysis, or damaging the cerebral cortex for insta death.
I'm just trying to get general idea for implementing a LITTLE more detail to injury then hit point loss.
For example, a giant crits you in the face with a bolder it would make sense to me if you get a little dizzy. just "that really hurt, and your now having a hard time focusing"
This does not mean that im looking to define rules to take into account aneurisms or brain damage.
delericho
Legend
Darathin: I've replied to several of your posts here, mostly tearing apart a special case you've put up specifically as an absurd example. So, if you don't want to read several paragraphs of essentially the same thing over and over again, and just want to skip to something that's (potentially) useful, can I suggest you skip down to the second-last quoted block? 
You're mixing the D&D definitions of these terms with the natural language definitions.
Firstly, a cerebral cortex is part of a person, and so not an object. (Of course, if one had been extracted from a corpse, then that would be an object.) And, in 3.5e terms, 'unattended' merely means one not in the possession of a character. (IOW, you couldn't use mage hand to steal another character's dagger, because that would not be an unattended item.)
Since a cerebral cortex is neither an object nor unattended, mage hand does not apply.
Again, you're mixing the specific language used by D&D with natural language definitions of the same. Mage hand allows you to move the object - and nothing else. If it allowed you to use a rock to move something else, it would have said so.
And, fundamentally, that's the issue. D&D has always had a loose relationship with real-world physics. And so trying to derive game-effects from real-world physics and first principles is a fool's game - those physics simply don't apply.
Believe me, you don't want to go down that rabbit hole too deeply. It doesn't take very long before you'll drive youirself mad trying to square the two!
Actually, there's no particular reason to assume that D&D characters even have spinal cords or cerebral cortices. Given the ability of high-level characters to walk away from lethal falls and be totally unimpeded in their ongoing actions (and that they can do so reliably), I'm just as inclined to suggest they're made of rubber.
D&D isn't an exhaustive simulation of real-world adventuring or real-world combat. If it's a simulation of anything, it's of the adventure stories from "Appendix N", the tropes of "D&D literature", or even CRPGs such as WoW or NWN. And, of course, in none of these sources do heroes suffer the sorts of wounds you suggest.
Aye, and that's an entirely reasonable goal. A couple of suggestions:
1) You could consider applying some of the existing conditions to particular attacks. I would recommend sticking to the weaker end of the condition spectrum, generating a random table of about half a dozen of these, and rolling when a character suffers a critical hit (or perhaps when he is reduced to 50% of max hit points).
2) Alternately, you could consider looking for "The Book of Iron Might" by Mike Meals (from Malhavoc), which details a system for generating various maneuvers. Or Mongoose's "Game Designer's Compendium" (I think it's called that), which includes various options including a "grim and gritty combat system". Of course, I don't know how easy either of these would be to find, and certainly I have doubts over the balance of the Mongoose book.
One of the very important things to recognise with the hit point system is that characters don't ever suffer a critical hit to the face, unless the blow reduces them to -10 hit points and kills them outright. If the character has enough hit points to avoid being killed, then through a combination of luck, skill, divine favour, or what have you, he was somehow able to avoid almost all of the blow - the boulder missed him but he tore something while dodging out the way, or he got caught by various shards that split from the rock as it went past, or he deflected it with his shield but suffered nasty bruising, or something.
But, per 3e's definition of hit points, he neither suffered a direct hit from the boulder (which, realistically, would indeed be lethal), nor was he able to avoid the blow entirely. And that applies whether he suffered only 1 hp damage or 100, whether it was just a 'regular' hit, or a max-damage max-power attack critical hit.
You're mixing the D&D definitions of these terms with the natural language definitions.
Firstly, a cerebral cortex is part of a person, and so not an object. (Of course, if one had been extracted from a corpse, then that would be an object.) And, in 3.5e terms, 'unattended' merely means one not in the possession of a character. (IOW, you couldn't use mage hand to steal another character's dagger, because that would not be an unattended item.)
Since a cerebral cortex is neither an object nor unattended, mage hand does not apply.
Again, you're mixing the specific language used by D&D with natural language definitions of the same. Mage hand allows you to move the object - and nothing else. If it allowed you to use a rock to move something else, it would have said so.
And, fundamentally, that's the issue. D&D has always had a loose relationship with real-world physics. And so trying to derive game-effects from real-world physics and first principles is a fool's game - those physics simply don't apply.
Believe me, you don't want to go down that rabbit hole too deeply. It doesn't take very long before you'll drive youirself mad trying to square the two!
Actually, there's no particular reason to assume that D&D characters even have spinal cords or cerebral cortices. Given the ability of high-level characters to walk away from lethal falls and be totally unimpeded in their ongoing actions (and that they can do so reliably), I'm just as inclined to suggest they're made of rubber.
D&D isn't an exhaustive simulation of real-world adventuring or real-world combat. If it's a simulation of anything, it's of the adventure stories from "Appendix N", the tropes of "D&D literature", or even CRPGs such as WoW or NWN. And, of course, in none of these sources do heroes suffer the sorts of wounds you suggest.
Aye, and that's an entirely reasonable goal. A couple of suggestions:
1) You could consider applying some of the existing conditions to particular attacks. I would recommend sticking to the weaker end of the condition spectrum, generating a random table of about half a dozen of these, and rolling when a character suffers a critical hit (or perhaps when he is reduced to 50% of max hit points).
2) Alternately, you could consider looking for "The Book of Iron Might" by Mike Meals (from Malhavoc), which details a system for generating various maneuvers. Or Mongoose's "Game Designer's Compendium" (I think it's called that), which includes various options including a "grim and gritty combat system". Of course, I don't know how easy either of these would be to find, and certainly I have doubts over the balance of the Mongoose book.
One of the very important things to recognise with the hit point system is that characters don't ever suffer a critical hit to the face, unless the blow reduces them to -10 hit points and kills them outright. If the character has enough hit points to avoid being killed, then through a combination of luck, skill, divine favour, or what have you, he was somehow able to avoid almost all of the blow - the boulder missed him but he tore something while dodging out the way, or he got caught by various shards that split from the rock as it went past, or he deflected it with his shield but suffered nasty bruising, or something.
But, per 3e's definition of hit points, he neither suffered a direct hit from the boulder (which, realistically, would indeed be lethal), nor was he able to avoid the blow entirely. And that applies whether he suffered only 1 hp damage or 100, whether it was just a 'regular' hit, or a max-damage max-power attack critical hit.
