D&D General Hit Points are a great mechanic

[kermit4karate]

Someone attacks me with a longsword and there is a 1 in 8 chance that I take an additional d8 damage. A d8 does an average of 4.5 damage. So this is just over an extra half a point of damage every time I get hit.

If the extra damage d8 is also an 8, this happens again. I think this brings the average up to about 0.6? With further diminishing average effects as you go up.

I get that the threat of a spike may be more effective than the average over time. But I think stat bonuses and other damage mods are generally about half the value of the dice at low levels, and then about equal in mid levels? So you're talking about a 1 in 8 chance of doing less than double damage. Which I think can be significant at low levels, particularly in older editions (where you don't start at maximum 1st level hit points). But a level 1 fighter in 5e has what, 13 hit points? And 22 hit points at level 2? And 31 at level 3? I think by that point a 1 in 8 chance of taking an additional 1d8 damage is not enough of a threat to affect most people's feelings about the scariness of combat.

It does, though. I've seen it play out countless times. It's like gambling at a casino. The guy next to you hits a jackpot, and suddenly everyone thinks they can win. Same goes for this mechanic and the psychological effects on the table. As soon as one of the players around the table gets hit by a goblin firing a short bow and takes 22 HP damage (1d6+2 normally; DM rolls a 6, then another 6, then another 6, then a 2; which happens far more often than you'd think), and suddenly everyone gets a little more afraid of goblins with short bows.

It's mostly psychological, but so are agoraphobia and PTSD. Doesn't make them feel any less real.

And compare this to the alternative, where a player with 20 HP KNOWS, beyond a shadow of a doubt, they'll survive a hit from that same goblin's short bow. To me that is a huge problem, but there's an easy fix.

 

[soviet]

It does, though. I've seen it play out countless times. It's like gambling at a casino. The guy next to you hits a jackpot, and suddenly everyone thinks they can win. Same goes for this mechanic and the psychological effects on the table. As soon as one of the players around the table gets hit by a goblin firing a short bow and takes 22 HP damage (1d6+2 normally; DM rolls a 6, then another 6, then another 6, then a 2; which happens far more often than you'd think), and suddenly everyone gets a little more afraid of goblins with short bows.

It's mostly psychological, but so are agoraphobia and PTSD. Doesn't make them feel any less real.

And compare this to the alternative, where a player with 20 HP KNOWS, beyond a shadow of a doubt, they'll survive a hit from that same goblin's short bow. To me that is a huge problem, but there's an easy fix.

Well, this is a 1 in 1,296 chance to get to the fourth d6. Personally I have a good enough grasp of probabilities that I would not be concerned or cowed by it. But if you've had positive experiences with it then fair enough.

 

[kermit4karate]

Well, this is a 1 in 1,296 chance to get to the fourth d6. Personally I have a good enough grasp of probabilities that I would not be concerned or cowed by it. But if you've had positive experiences with it then fair enough.

I agree! But do you ever gamble at casinos or play the lottery? I also have a pretty good grasp of probabilities, but I've also at times felt like my luck was leaning one way or another. Play enough Blackjack and you'll go on streaks that seem statistically impossible. I've won 17 hands in a row! Odds of that happening are...not good.

I'll just end by saying to whomever else might be reading, just give this (or similar) house rule a try, if you haven't already. If it makes you feel better, it wasn't my idea. I didn't come up with it. I took it from a grizzled, old DM at a D&D convention at Cal's Books in Redding, California, circa 1989.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's far different from being paranoid about worrying that at any moment I could be shivved by a goblin hiding in the alley. If that was the kind of game I wanted to play I'd play a different game.

That is very often the kind of game I want to play.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, but I think having this sort of buffer is the point of D&D style hit point. They're a "defeatometer" that makes things more predictable. They inform you that things are starting to get dire and but you've couple of turns to course correct. And I think this is mostly a good thing, even if it might lessen the tension of each roll a bit. And it was actually Rolemaster that made me appreciate how D&D does things. Having your brand new character one-shotted by the first attack of the first monster or your character one-shotting the supposed big bad when they are first introduced just isn't fun to me. (Yes, both of these happened.)

And I am not even sure it flattens the overall tension, it just becomes more of a longer term suspense as you look the hit points to dwindle. In game like Rolemaster it is harder to get invested in the course the battle takes, as a lucky roll might completely change the situation any moment.

The verisimilitude you get from the idea that a lucky roll might completely change the situation any moment is a huge point in Rolemaster's favor IMO, and mechanics that evoke that feel generally make me happy.

 

[GobHag]

It does, though. I've seen it play out countless times. It's like gambling at a casino. The guy next to you hits a jackpot, and suddenly everyone thinks they can win. Same goes for this mechanic and the psychological effects on the table. As soon as one of the players around the table gets hit by a goblin firing a short bow and takes 22 HP damage (1d6+2 normally; DM rolls a 6, then another 6, then another 6, then a 2; which happens far more often than you'd think), and suddenly everyone gets a little more afraid of goblins with short bows.

It's mostly psychological, but so are agoraphobia and PTSD. Doesn't make them feel any less real.

And compare this to the alternative, where a player with 20 HP KNOWS, beyond a shadow of a doubt, they'll survive a hit from that same goblin's short bow. To me that is a huge problem, but there's an easy fix.

That last point is I think something that is good, I do want my 6th level wizard to go pshaw at getting bitten by a rat instead of getting one-shotted by a hail mary immediate death. I don't want short bow goblins to be deadly at later levels, I want them to be as they should be; easily defeatable mooks meant to make players feel good that they dumpster those fuckers.

 

[kermit4karate]

That last point is I think something that is good, I do want my 6th level wizard to go pshaw at getting bitten by a rat instead of getting one-shotted by a hail mary immediate death. I don't want short bow goblins to be deadly at later levels, I want them to be as they should be; easily defeatable mooks meant to make players feel good that they dumpster those fuckers.

To each their own, but it's wildly incompatible with fantasy fiction, which I realize some here have said they aren't influenced by in their games (something I find verrrry hard to believe).

 

[W'rkncacnter]

those fuckers.

how the HELL did THIS get through the censor?????????

 

[GobHag]

To each their own, but it's wildly incompatible with fantasy fiction, which I realize some here have said they aren't influenced by in their games (something I find verrrry hard to believe).

My fantasy fiction is Warcraft, Dark Souls, and Final Fantasy. I don't give a rat's butt about the Grey Mouser or LotR

 

[Laurefindel]

To each their own, but it's wildly incompatible with fantasy fiction, which I realize some here have said they aren't influenced by in their games (something I find verrrry hard to believe).

I agree with you there. I like HP as a simple health bar mechanics, but arguments in favour of versimilitude are feeble IMO.

In the animal kingdom as in human conflicts (or any dangerous ventures really), the risks of lasting damage and injuries are constantly weighted against the benefits of success. It’s often no good to win a fight if you emerge injured, even if still alive. It’s no good to win a race if your car needs extensive repair, even if it’s not totalled. Oftentimes, surrendering (or cutting your losses and let the opponent win) is the optimal option. This is often lost in RPG, in part because hp are very lenient until you’re just dead ( but also because we tend to put PCs in life-or-death situations exclusively)