D&D General Self-Defeating Rules in D&D

I also dont think there's anything wrong with the game sticking to an aesthetic or visual feel.
But it hasn't.

That's my point.

D&D hasn't ever "stuck to" that aesthetic. As I showed at some length, that aesthetic was essentially abandoned in 2E.

So this wouldn't be "sticking to" an aesthetic, this would be completely abandoning the last 30+ years of aesthetic in favour of reverting to one from like 40 years ago.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Samesies on Treasure Island (Muppet version only) and I'm 47.
I read the book when I was 8! And talking of upper middle class I have seen it on some public school reading lists. But I guess there hasn’t been a TV or movie version since the 90s, so I guess the muppets killed it off. Shame they couldn’t do the same for Christmas Carol, we still seem to get two or three new ones every year.

We had Black Sails though, did no one watch it?
 

Nobody is saying torches are bad visuals or don’t belong in D&D settings. We are saying managing a collection of sticks rags and oil because your ass is toast if you don’t, isn’t part of the game folks want the focus on anymore.
I think D&D is the only place that has ever happened. In the fiction torches are either created as required or picked up from convenient sconces. So far as I know, miners used tallow candles before lanterns were invented.
 

I think D&D is the only place that has ever happened. In the fiction torches are either created as required or picked up from convenient sconces. So far as I know, miners used tallow candles before lanterns were invented.
It’s happened before. In all western themed games I’ve played only Oregon Trail has made wagon logistics a thing to worry about. 🤷‍♂️
 

People griping about darkvision used to frustrate me, now I'm just amused. It's as if the ability to make permanent light sources doesn't show up by level 3 at the latest (Continual Light for the Wizard list in AD&D) for a long time now, or that enterprising Wizards don't sell such light sources on the open market.

And so what if your whole party has darkvision? They're not going to get the drop on enemies in darkness, as just about every monster has darkvision as well (though really, they're going to want light too, to actually notice anything sneaking up on them, either due to 5e's -5 passive perception or not being able to accurately describe in black&white vision...or with infravision, a "blob of heat").

And let's not forget, that vision has range- 60' for most beings, which means you can still be surprised by stuff as you travel about. And torches are just bad, anyone smart is going to use a lantern.

They provide worse light, don't last very long, and you constantly have this source of heat around ready to ignite pockets of gas or suck up all your oxygen- and that is at constant risk of guttering out on you or setting something on fire (you hair, the Wizard's spellbook, scrolls, etc. etc.).

D&D worlds absolutely have the technology for something like mining helmets btw, even if enterprising spellcasters aren't selling rocks with Continual Light cast upon them out there)!

And in AD&D, you could just hire a non-combatant to carry a torch for you at a fairly cheap cost, if it came down to it!

Add to that, as has been previously mentioned, devoting a hand to carrying a light source is something D&D has always penalized you for- can't dual wield, use shields, two-handed weapons, etc. etc..

So if being able to see in the dark more efficiently is this huge problem for the game, it's been one since the 1970's, and by design. No edition of D&D has ever sought to eliminate Dwarves and light magic, and I'd argue, doing so would be right up there with taking Half-Orcs out of the game (or making people roll to hit with Magic Missile!).
 


It’s happened before. In all western themed games I’ve played only Oregon Trail has made wagon logistics a thing to worry about. 🤷‍♂️
I grew up in the wrong country to have ever played the Oregon Trail. Which may explain different mindsets. It’s hard for me to imagine not being within a day’s journey of an inn, so the only thing to not run out of is money.
 



Remove ads

Top