Evil Heroes, Here we go!

[Hedam]

Hi Guys

So ive been searching around for advice, googling things like evil characters, evil party, stuff like that.. Couldn't find much so i decided to start a thread

Im the designated Dungeon master for our group and after their last Teamwipe they expressed the desire to play an all evil party.. Not a first i might add, but this time i really wanted for them the experience the feeling of being the bad guys.. Start them out as a group of A**Holes only out for money and later steer the plot toward them becoming true villians..

So i was wondering, how can i make the best campaign suited for an evil party?

 

[Jester David]

Think Grand Theft Auto. No, really. If you've every played those games or related games use them as a template, look at the things they ask you to do.

Start them out small as members of a gang and have a higher up assign missions or tasks. Robbery, threats, the occasional murder. It really helps if the PCs all work for the same Thieves' Guild or pirate captain. It gives them an excuse to work together.

Once they have a feel for the world and setting and their characters, let them be a little more proactive. Maybe they want to seize control. Maybe they want to cause a little random mayhem. Maybe they have a scheme or plan they want to try out.

Since being villains is a little bit extra of wish fulfilment, be sure to add little moments where the players can act out. The jerk who annoys them in a bar, the arrogant jock who tries to steal their girl, the easy mark spending too much gold, etc. Give them the easy opportunities to do something nasty that also won't make the players feel scuzy.

Ask your players for suggestions. Find out where they draw the line as a group, find out how evil they want to be and how gritty they want the game to be. There's a huge difference between an evil game played seriously (torturing a crying shopkeeper in front of his family while his young son cries "daddy! daddy!") and an evil game played comically and over the top (dungeon crawl through nunnery fight wave after wave of highly trained ninja nuns before facing the monk mother superiour).

 

[Mad Hamish]

I strongly recommend the Way of the Wicked adventure path by Fire Mountain Games. The first 3 modules (Knot of Thorns, Call Forth Darkness & Tears of the Blessed) are out now and the 4th should be released shortly (unless I've missed an announcement)
They're available from Paizo and DriveThruRPG

 

[Hedam]

This is absolute gold! I see the idea of making them the goons of some evil dude, make them taste and want the power he possesses.. The monk thing is genius! Blackmailing or robbing hardcore female ninjas!

So their starting lvl is 10, so maybe they are on the verge of breaking off from their benefactor..

Should i focus on other types of enemies?

How do i handle the 15+ lvls when the biggest profit is robbing aristocrats?


Mad Hamish i was also looking for some adventure paths, but as they just played from 1-10 i didnt want force them through that again, and somehow starting in the middle of a series of adventure path seems somehow a waste?

 

[paradox42]

"Name" level in 1E and 2E was about 9th level, and the Leadership feat only requires 7th- so I'd say that if they're starting at 10th and haven't already become villains in their own right, then they're probably too weak to ever do it (or you have a very high-powered world).

If you want to have a period of "working for the strongman" before they break away, I'd advise starting them at 5th or below.

EDIT: Also, even if you don't plan to run it, checking out Way of the Wicked could give you GoodBad Ideas.

 

[amethal]

I strongly recommend the Way of the Wicked adventure path by Fire Mountain Games. The first 3 modules (Knot of Thorns, Call Forth Darkness & Tears of the Blessed) are out now and the 4th should be released shortly (unless I've missed an announcement)
They're available from Paizo and DriveThruRPG

You can also get them as print on demand from DriveThru (it isn't obvious from the DriveThru site, or at least not to me!)

They are extremely well written adventures. I believe the first one has been nominated for an Ennie.

The only slight caveat about evil campaigns in general that I got from reading Tears of the Blessed is that I don't enjoy the idea of player characters slaughtering celestials (or at least, not celestials portrayed as sympathetic characters).

 

[Hedam]

I Agree..
After giving it some thought, i went about as if they were each leader of their own evil group.. A Thieves guild, an evil underground temple, so on and so forth.. and start the campaign with them each recieving a letter from a rich aristocrat, wishing for them and others to join forces.. So they become a coalition of evil, thirteen in number!

I will give Way of the Wicked a read, maybe it can inspire a truly evil plot!

I myself thought of killing angels as opponents, but i think it will dilute the effect.. So as of now im sticking with only one Celestial, a Herald of a good god.. And keep the encounter dramatic.. When he dies something really epic must happen..

 

[Aberzanzorax]

I can't recommend Way of the Wicked enough.

It has great advice for running evil adventures, a structure that helps make evil work, and a few really neat things catering to evil adventurers (e.g. they get to run their own dungeon at one point as a major series of events).

I'm currently running it and the players are having a ball.

 

[gdmcbride]

Hedam,

Gary McBride here. I wrote "Way of the Wicked" (and thanks to everyone for talking it up).

I have a few brief points of advice for evil campaigns:

1) We're in this together

In my experience, most players handle interparty conflict poorly, so find a way to either minimize it or at least control it. In an evil campaign, it's great to have a little back-biting and low-level scheming against one another. What's not good is guns-drawn, player vs. player combat. It's not conducive to campaign play and a great percentage of players taking killing their character very personally.

So, make the PCs part of an evil organization. Give them a boss (at least at first) who is watching them and will harshly punish killing one another. Have the PCs swear a blood oath to a demon lord, arch-devil, guild of assassins or evil overlord that they will work together. They don't have to like each other, but they do have to cooperate in their mission.

2) Evil is Active

Good can be reactive. Reactive evil, while theoretically possible, is almost always silly and pointless. Evil has to have a plan - some wicked scheme they are working towards.

Good guys can just wander from village to village saving random folks in distress. That works for team good guy.

Randomly murdering people is quickly boring. Team evil needs a plan that gets them out in the field roleplaying and interacting with allies and victims and the like. Fortunately there are lots of wicked schemes to choose from -- revenge, greed, lust for power, devotion to dark gods, teaching those fools at the ACADEMY WHO LAUGHED AT YOU THAT YOU ARE A GREATER GENIUS THAN THEY EVER WILL BE! *ahem* Sorry, got carried away there. You get the idea.

3) PG-13 Villainy

Graphic depictions of torture, sexual abuse and the like are always at unwelcome at the table. Yes, evil likely employs horrific methods. That doesn't mean you to describe them in details. Know when to employ the cut scene. Encourag villains to say things like...

"So, the paladin won't talk will he? I tie him down and introduce him to my minion Halthus the Flayer. 'Halthus has forgotten more about pain than you or I will ever know. You should feel fortunate. Tonight, you are going to experience a master at work. I would love to stay, but alas tonight I have other engagements. In the morning we'll talk. If you tell me everything you know, tonight could be your only night with dear Halthus. Hold out and I see you two spending a lot of time together.'"

...And then walk away. What ever you imagine happened that night, what did happen was far worse. Roll some dice, adjudicate the results and move on.

In "Way of the Wicked" you will find a longer exploration of what makes a fun evil campaign. This is just an introduction.

Hope that helps,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

 

[Ramaster]

Yeah, basically what the author said.

I especially like the part about Evil is Proactive. That is why, in my opinion, "Evil Campaigns" work better as sandbox games if your players are cool with that. If you feel that they would prefer to be more guided, then have them work for a truly vicious patron who brutalizes and uses them, then give them a chance to kill him/her and take over the organization.

Playing an evil sandbox game with players who are not so comfortable with the "sandbox" part will result in acts of petty evil, like robbing people on the street and dickish attitudes towards NPCs and the experience will be less fulfilling that a well structured plot about evil people with a plan. Thread carefully for these be treacherous waters.