Teleportation

[ferratus]

But what if a DM is not familiar with it? Wouldn't it be nice to have an option in the DMG on how to use these kind of spells? With examples on how to make them fit want more high magic easy travel use a less restrictive teleport want something more dangerous then one with added risk.

Wouldn't it be nicer not to leave a trap for a novice DM to tear his hair out in frustration, as players skip over everything that they can, and his relatively mundane world that he built be torn to shreds of implausibility by having the ability to break time and space?

At least if you hold it off to 16th or 18th level, the campaign is nearly over, so you don't have to deal with all the problems of teleport for half the game.

 

[ferratus]

Because you saying that wizards and sorcerers should take the time every night that they camp to set up a portal.

Yes... but how is that less broken than not having to bother with a camp at all? With being able to teleport to aid immediately without any planning or prep?

You are claiming that creating portals is more powerful than teleport at whim to anywhere in the world. How so?

 

[Elf Witch]

Then they also need to ban rogues and monks who can sneak in and kill the King. But I don't need teleport I will just dominate one of personal guards and have him do it or I will cast improved invisibility on assassin and let him do it.

Both easier to thwart than a teleporting mage with a save or die spell.



Yes I know, the only way to counter a wizard is with another wizard. It doesn't matter that thousands upon thousands of gold pieces were spent creating a bastion. If it isn't enchanted, then there is no way to keep out a mid-level wizard.

I really, really, dislike the attitude among D&D players that magic users not only have to be powerful and mysterious, but have to be more powerful than other classes in every way by the time they reach mid levels. Pah. Magic is the unreliable tools of the craven and weak, that can't stand up to honest steel.



Which teleport (and other magics) already do, and for which gaseous form causes less problems than teleport. For example, a deep dungeon with a labyrinth keeps away those players with gaseous form, because they will run out of rounds before they arrive at the big bad.

I really really dislike the attitude among some DnD players that their style of play is the only one that is the right way to play.

I happen to sometimes like powerful magic and using magic as a counter to it and in games where magic is powerful the counters will have to be for the most part magical.

If you don't like that style of game then you need to A find a system without powerful magic, B tweak the game so it plays more in the style you like.

To get around the time running out all a wise wizards needs is a wand with the spell on it and poof they are all gas again.

Anything can be abused in the game in the hands of smart players. If we took out everything that they can abuse we would have very precious little left to use in a game.

 

[Elf Witch]

Wouldn't it be nicer not to leave a trap for a novice DM to tear his hair out in frustration, as players skip over everything that they can, and his relatively mundane world that he built be torn to shreds of implausibility by having the ability to break time and space?

At least if you hold it off to 16th or 18th level, the campaign is nearly over, so you don't have to deal with all the problems of teleport for half the game.

I was once a newbie DM and I didn't pull my hair out over the spell. I know plenty of DMs who were once newbies and who did just fine with it in the game.

The whole point of having a spell like that in the DMG is so that those newbie DMs can have guidance on if they would like it in their games.

DnD attracts pretty smart people I don't think they need to be treated like idiots and protected from a possible abuse of a spell.

 

[pemerton]

But what if a DM is not familiar with it?

Well, then they won't miss it. Or, if they wonder about it, they can come to ENworld and become informed!

It's not as if D&D currently has spells to cover every possible magical, supernatural or science fiction effect, such that removing teleport would leave the game mysteriously lacking.

 

[Lanefan]

I was once a newbie DM and I didn't pull my hair out over the spell. I know plenty of DMs who were once newbies and who did just fine with it in the game.

This made me giggle, as when I was a newbie DM my first campaign world was built around - you guessed it - a teleport network. It wasn't a perfect setting by any means, but the teleport network was one of the (rather shamefully few) things that worked out pretty well in the long run.

Lan-"the campaign name 'Telenet' in my .sig in fact comes from teleport network"-efan

 

[ferratus]

This made me giggle, as when I was a newbie DM my first campaign world was built around - you guessed it - a teleport network. It wasn't a perfect setting by any means, but the teleport network was one of the (rather shamefully few) things that worked out pretty well in the long run.

Lan-"the campaign name 'Telenet' in my .sig in fact comes from teleport network"-efan

See, the way I want to do things works, even for newbie DM's.

 

[Elf Witch]

Yes... but how is that less broken than not having to bother with a camp at all? With being able to teleport to aid immediately without any planning or prep?

You are claiming that creating portals is more powerful than teleport at whim to anywhere in the world. How so?

It is right up there why would you create a portal at every camp sight? And if you do that then what is the difference between traveling through the portals to avoid the trip and teleporting?

I know what you are going to say you worry about the offensive abilities of teleport.

The one big problem with teleport is scry. Scry is one of the most broken spells in the game as far as I am concerned you should only be able to scry on someone you know well seeing someone once should not be enough unless you have an item off of them with their essence in it. And you should never be able to scry on a place you have never seen or been easily.

And as much as I like teleport I don't like teleport without error there should always be a risk involved.

I have modified scry in my game and I use a modified teleport there is always a risk of not ending up where you hoped, having the party scattered over several miles there are ways to modify the power of the spell without completely banning it.

 

[Elf Witch]

Well, then they won't miss it. Or, if they wonder about it, they can come to ENworld and become informed!

It's not as if D&D currently has spells to cover every possible magical, supernatural or science fiction effect, such that removing teleport would leave the game mysteriously lacking.

A lot of gamers never visit forums.

I disagree with that I think being able to magically go from one place to another is part of the game regardless of how you accomplish it.

We could make this argument about every spell in the game.

Teleport is a spell put into the game to allow faster travel in a world without airplanes. I have seen it used to enhance the game and allow different types of adventures.

I don't think the game designers had in mind when they made the spell that it would be used to ruin games anymore than putting knock in the game was to step all over the rogues. It was to allow parties without rogues to be able to function.

 

[ferratus]

I really really dislike the attitude among some DnD players that their style of play is the only one that is the right way to play.

Right back at ya I guess.

I happen to sometimes like powerful magic and using magic as a counter to it and in games where magic is powerful the counters will have to be for the most part magical.

Sure, but it pretty much means that wizards rule everything. Which I don't really see why that should be the case unless you want to specifically make that type of campaign. This seems to better a fit a "high magic" module, than a D&D campaign generally, which could have a dial from very low to very high magic.

If you don't like that style of game then you need to A find a system without powerful magic, B tweak the game so it plays more in the style you like.

Or you could tweak the game to play more in the style you like. But either way, it doesn't solve the problems with the teleport spell.

To get around the time running out all a wise wizards needs is a wand with the spell on it and poof they are all gas again.

Or you could have a wand of teleport... which is worse. Of course, a lot of abuse of spells could be curtailed if you can't store 50 of them in a wand. That might be something to look into.

Magical items were also something that 1e did better. You couldn't create wands of teleport or gaseous form at a whim.

Anything can be abused in the game in the hands of smart players. If we took out everything that they can abuse we would have very precious little left to use in a game.

Yeah, but it would be nice if players had to think a little bit about how they can abuse something, rather than just having abusive spells that only exist because of the idea that wizards should be more powerful than everyone else.