D&D 5E 5e Monster design and monster PCs

[Derren]

but it'll be a dragon with appropriate stats to the party's level.

No, it will be a completely new race which looks like a dragon. But there was always a big difference between a "monster monster" and a "monster PC". For some having a difference there is no issue, but for some it is.

 

[GX.Sigma]

No, it will be a completely new race which looks like a dragon. But there was always a big difference between a "monster monster" and a "monster PC". For some having a difference there is no issue, but for some it is.

No, it will be an actual dragon. As in, literally one of those big flying things that are listed in the Monster Manual as "dragons."

If you create a "dragon" PC race, that would be a completely new race that looks like a dragon.

Perhaps we have misunderstood each other.

 

[Advilaar]

Really? I would have thought it would be easier in 4e than ever, because of its rules to level up (or down) monsters, and come up with stats based on level and role. It won't have a PC class, but it'll be a dragon with appropriate stats to the party's level.

In 5e, it'll be even easier--monsters have stats by level, and you can add PC class levels on top of that. So you have a dragon, which is a level 10 monster, and then you can have it gain levels and advance as a Sorcerer (or whatever).
You could take it as a feat.

A multiclass feat.

I aplogize, I should have been more clear. The 4e monster creation system is a direct response to the clustermess that was the 3e system and to a lesser extent, the 2e system. It is a very abstact way of dealing with things. Unfortunately. even with statistics for leveling up and down, it is hard to determine actual playable stats. The 4e formula assumes a role and feats you are not spending time muddling through. however, it does not tell you that number so you have to guesstimate it. Not to mention, from a cannon fodder DM stand point, according to the actual wording of the rules you cannot just give one of your orcs a set of +3 armor and merely add +3 plus armor.

Now, with 5e and it's current direction of "template" style backgrounds and specialties (and really - let's be overjoyed - the simplification of feats!) it will be less of an issue if they continue the course. But, for PC monsters under 4e, it requires quite a bit of DM houseruling.

But really the REAL culprit is the feat system introduced in 2e skills and powers and made canon 3e. All these minor benefits! A feat should be REAL advantages like class features! 5e looks like it is addressing this, though.

 

[Li Shenron]

It worked in 3E because monsters and PCs were built using the same units. In 5E it will need to be similar to 4E - someone will need to convert the monster to it can work in a separate PC race/class system.

As a player I really liked the lego-brick "you can build anything" approach of 3E. However, as DM I really disliked it, as it took much longer than I wanted to build NPCs.

It's probably unsolvable, because either the game is setup so that PC and monsters follow the same rules (which makes it naturally easy then to use monsters as PCs) or it is setup so that PC and monsters do not follow the same rules (which makes it naturally easy for the DM to modify or design new monsters).

Personally I'm not a huge fan of monsters as PC, and support for that is low on my priority list.

But I still like the idea of the option to be there in the game, and I have even less interest in creating new monsters or modifying existing once, except in terms of adding class levels (which might actually work better if PCs and monsters use the same rules), thus in general I am in favor of "same rules for all".

 

[Someone]

Now, a book with a new system for player character dragons and ogres and djinns and oozes and awakened pieces of furniture:

Now I can't wait to play this guy.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Awakened animals or pieces of furniture were always my dream PC - but sadly bookshelves aren't very mobile, despite their excuse for being a Wizard (you should have seen the books I had stacked on me over the years.. there's nothing I haven't read! And forgotten! Because I was a shelf!)