Players that are only interested about their characters

[innerdude]

The #1 thing you can do is to give your players something interesting to do, and have them be accountable to someone in the game world for its success or failure. And if they don't like feel like being accountable to anyone, then in most cases, someone on the world will take it upon themselves to MAKE the party accountable. To most governments, adventurers without loyalties or affiliations are little better than scoundrels and outlaws.

One of the things I've noticed about the Pathfinder Adventure Paths (love them or hate them) is that they provide very distinct psychological hooks for players, and not just "adventure" ones.

The best way I've found to get players more involved with the world is to help them realize that the world expects things from them, both in a general sense, and a specific sense.

Most of my players have never really cared about "the world," per se. Hell, I've played with groups that only knew the name "Waterdeep" because we've played the board game. Players aren't interested in interacting with "Golarion," or "Eberron," or even "Gray's Gracious Guild of Mages of the City of Googloth."

But most of the time, when someone in the world expects something from them, they're forced to make a decision. They either do something about it, or ignore it, but in either case, there's always consequences.

Don't force anything on your players, as others have stated. But there's lots of small, subtle things you can do to help them realize that this world is watching them and reacting to them. If that element isn't in place, players aren't likely to do anything to react back to it. If what they do doesn't matter to the people in the game world, then they have no reason to interact with the NPCs or the world they inhabit.

 

[Quickleaf]

Recently I've noticed that my players only talk about their characters' game mechanical abilities. They talk about how much damage they can inflict per round and how powerful they will be and what sort of builds do they want. I've noticed that they never talk about the game-world or any developments in the story or their relations with NPCs or anything not relating to numbers.

Hey Jon, is this a recent change or have they always had the "power gamer" streak and it's just getting to you now?

Maybe you can tell us something about your players? That way we can better come up with ways to either trick them into getting invested in the story, or adapt to their play style(s).

Usually when I DM, I try to create an arching story with lot of written dialogue and in-depth NPC personalities. I've noticed that my players don't care about all that, at least not in the way that I want.

The emphasis is mine. What do you mean by "written dialogue"? That sounds suspiciously like a wall of text or rail-roading, but I'm not clear how you mean it.

I'm afraid to talk to my players about this, because I don't want to sound as if I'm disappointed with them. Instead I'd like to ask you guys that have you noticed this with your players and what would be the best way to approach the situation?

Are you gaming with a group of kids or something? The way you're writing about them makes it sound like its your children or your buddy's children, not adults.

Shoot, you're the Dungeon Master, so if anything it should be players afraid of you! j/k

 

[Jon_Dahl]

Lots of good advice so far, thank you! It's great to know that I'm not the only one in this sort of situation.

The emphasis is mine. What do you mean by "written dialogue"? That sounds suspiciously like a wall of text or rail-roading, but I'm not clear how you mean it.

It means that if I know for sure that they are going to talk to someone (such as the prisoners they are trying to release) I have the opening word, thank-yous etc. already written. I don't have to fumble with my words. I've noticed that some published adventures have this also and I think it's a great idea (such as Red Hand of Doom). It makes the game much more cinematic.
Maybe "written dialogue" is not the best term? I can assure you that it's not railroading or a wall of text. Sometimes if the players uncover a deep-rooted and complex conspiracy then it's possible to have a wall of text. It's rare though.

it's just getting to you now?

This. And the situation has gone worse gradually.

 

[Quickleaf]

This. And the situation has gone worse gradually.

What do you attribute the worsening situation to? A new game system? Introduction of a new power-gaming player?

It sounds like your problem is not that they are power-gaming to get the most mechanical benefit out of their characters, but that the power-gaming is happening at the expense of their immersion in the game's story. IOW that they used to be more immersed in the story but that something changed.

I'd caution against the "if you can't beat them join them" mentality as a DM. It's really important for you to enjoy the game you run. If you can enjoy hack-and-slash then that's a fine way to go, but if you don't I wouldn't make such a sharp course correction to adapt to your players' perceived style.

After all, they could be power gaming at a video game or some other hobby, but they're choosing to play D&D around a table with friends. At least, I've had luck balancing different play styles by focusing on our commonalities and presenting a diverse range of challenges.

 

[Karak]

Ya I would also advise against pushing your game into power gamer mentality.
I think you have some excellent opinions here and ideas. It also really doesn't sound like you are doing much wrong. I think open communication with your players is the best to identify what you and they agree on and disagree on.

 

[haakon1]

to give your players something interesting to do, and have them be accountable to someone in the game world for its success or failure. . . . The best way I've found to get players more involved with the world is to help them realize that the world expects things from them, both in a general sense, and a specific sense.

Good advice. Even good roleplayers can get lost at times in a complex setting, lose track of what's going on, and not know what they're supposed to do. Some aids for that:

1) Give them a patron who is asking them to do the deed. This helps them remember what the hook is, why they are risking their necks.

2) Give them a challenge that can't be overcome by might. The Polh Dubh Doraka (sp?) adventure in Dragon, where the PC's have to get a giant to give them a magic cauldron, and taking it by force or stealing it brings a curse on you, is a good module for teaching this -- you can really only "win" by role playing and making a deal with the giant. Worked nicely as a 1:1 adventure for my most hack n' slashy player.

3) Reward roleplaying. Don't fall into the trap of having most NPC's be there for the killing, or to screw the PC's or make them into suckers. Make it a big deal and fun to NOT kill Meepo, and make it useful to have the local sheriff on your side, etc. Let the players figure out some mysteries.

4) Take notes at the end of every session. Read the notes at the beginning of the new season. Remembering stuff is important to role playing -- and if the notes focus on the role playing more than the "Joe has a +6 attack bonus" emphemera, the player's behavior may change -- "mentioned in dispatches" is it's own reward.

5) Start with light PC backgrounds, and add more depth as you go along, working with the player to fit it into the campaign. And, as with NPC's, don't use having a past as a way to screw with the players.

 

[amerigoV]

Check out this idea:
The 5×5 Method : Critical Hits

We are doing this in a Ptolus campaign. Basically the GM ran some stuff, then gathered up the loose ends into this 5x5 method. He also asked if there was anything the group wanted to do (we were part of a crime family in the game, so we built a goal or two around that as well). Since doing that, I have noticed our group has gotten more into the setting since we now have the opportunity to drive the direction of the game. If we are non-committal, the GM can pick one and push or introduce another thread to see if we are interested. It gives a sandbox feel without the "what-do-you-do-now-I-don't-know" syndrome.

I would attribute this method as being a key driver into this being the longest running campaign for this group.

 

[steenan]

1. If you want players to focus less on mechanical effectiveness, run a simple, rules-light game. When rules are simple, there is much less space for optimization - and, on the other hand, one does not have to be so careful with mechanics to have a viable character.

2. If you want players to focus more on NPCs, not only on their own characters, make your game more about relations and less about quests. It does not mean you need to get rid of combat - but the combat should always be against someone significant or for someone significant. "Why" should be as much, or more important than "how".

3. If you want players to focus more on your story, make it about the PCs and their choices. Don't ask players about backgrounds - ask them about their characters as they are now and build up on it. "What is your main goal, what do you want to achieve?", "What gives you strength to keep going?", "What do you fear the most and why?", "Who is important to you?". Then give them opportunities to achieve their goals, endanger the people they care for, make them face their fears.
Prepare your setting, but don't prepare a story in advance. Actively create situations where PCs have to choose, and then shape the story based on how they answer. Is money more important than discovering a secret from ones own past? How much freedom will one sacrifice in exchange for power? What do you do when two of your friends become each others' enemies?

4. Last but not least - make sure that your players are really interested in a game you want to run. If not, it's better to find another group than to try to force them into a style they don't like.
On the other hand, people can't fairly judge something they don't really know. So let your players know you're experimenting, run a few sessions in different styles and ask what they like.

 

[the Jester]

If you want them to care about the setting and npcs, you have to make them matter.

If they are jerks to the innkeep, he kicks them out and they have to go to the less prestigious inn.

If they don't pay attention to the npc's motives, he misleads them and takes advantage of their actions.

The pcs have to choose between working for a scumbag with lots of money or an upright fellow who can't pay well. Choosing the scumbag makes them unpopular around town.

...etc.