D&D 5E Damage in this Packet is Totally Out of Control

[Cybit]

I would also like to point out that those bonuses only occur once per turn (even the +20), so action surge attacks don't get to add the +20 or the martial damage dice.

 

[Bow_Seat]

I hate the new damage model in the latest packet. Martial Damage Dice and Martial Damage Bonus are broken in many area, most importantly the fun area. At high-levels, a fighter does pretty much the same damage with a pencil as he does with a two-handed battle axe? About the same holds true for a fighter with an 8 STR and one with a 20. At high-levels the bonus damage from using a big weapon and having a high STR is miniscule. This isn't right.

Where is the fun in adding the big flat Martial Damage Bonus? Bring back [W]x dice please, get rid of the Martial Damage Bonus, and do something that makes high-strength important at high levels. As others mentioned, maybe Martial Damage Dice should be multiples of your weapon die and the Martial Damage Bonus should be some multiple of your STR bonus?

I really like the idea of the martial damage bonus being a multiple of your stat modifier. So instead of it saying on your character sheet that you get +X base damage you get +x*(stat modifier) in additional damage.

 

[the Jester]

I really like the idea of the martial damage bonus being a multiple of your stat modifier. So instead of it saying on your character sheet that you get +X base damage you get +x*(stat modifier) in additional damage.

I prefer to avoid mechanics that superpower one ability score above the rest. I like seeing the occasional fighter with a medium strength but high intelligence who isn't totally gimped.

 

[Szatany]

Actually, if he novas and uses Combat Surge, he can get two attacks and double the effect of his martial damage dice on successful attacks.

Actually, no. Neither martial damage dice nor martial damage bonus can be used more than once per turn. So the 2nd attack from figther's surge will be a mere 1d8+5 in this case.

Yes, surge doubles the MDD, but doesn't double MDB. That's -20 damage from what you propose.

 

[FireLance]

Actually, no. Neither martial damage dice nor martial damage bonus can be used more than once per turn. So the 2nd attack from figther's surge will be a mere 1d8+5 in this case.

Yes, surge doubles the MDD, but doesn't double MDB. That's -20 damage from what you propose.

Actually, I did only count the Martial Damage Bonus once.

Average damage for a single hit = 4.5 + 5 + 21 x 2 + 20 = 71.5
Average damage per round = 91% x 71.5 = 65.065

The average damage is actually slightly higher than that because I did not bother to consider the chance of a second hit, and I did not take into account the minor increases possible from the Weapon Focus and Weapon Mastery feats.

 

[Bow_Seat]

I prefer to avoid mechanics that superpower one ability score above the rest. I like seeing the occasional fighter with a medium strength but high intelligence who isn't totally gimped.

That would seem fine if you really like fighters with high intelligence, but what do I tell a player if he asks if he should increase his strength when leveling up his fighter? I'll tell him that being strong doesn't really mean anything? If we want stats to not matter than they shouldn't be included as a mechanic.

I am not saying that I think stats should matter. I am just saying that either they do matter and we include them or they don't matter and we throw them out. It's the middle ground that makes things come out funny.

 

[Szatany]

Actually, I did only count the Martial Damage Bonus once.

Average damage for a single hit = 4.5 + 5 + 21 x 2 + 20 = 71.5
Average damage per round = 91% x 71.5 = 65.065

The average damage is actually slightly higher than that because I did not bother to consider the chance of a second hit, and I did not take into account the minor increases possible from the Weapon Focus and Weapon Mastery feats.

You also forgot about possible critical hits.
How did you arrive at 91%? Other than that, if your math is correct, I think this is too much. Or maybe monsters' HP is too low, not sure.

 

[Stormonu]

I hate the new damage model in the latest packet. Martial Damage Dice and Martial Damage Bonus are broken in many area, most importantly the fun area. At high-levels, a fighter does pretty much the same damage with a pencil as he does with a two-handed battle axe? About the same holds true for a fighter with an 8 STR and one with a 20. At high-levels the bonus damage from using a big weapon and having a high STR is miniscule. This isn't right.

D&D damage is so abstract that bothering with weapon damage dies is of little consequence - or do you think that a 20th level fighter ought to be able to survive a hit that would kill an adult bull elephant?

It does get a bit ridiculous though that it's like a scene from Chronicles of Riddick where the fighter can threaten to kill an opponent with a pop-top tab just as easily as he could use a two-handed battleaxe, but there is no easy fix. HPs not only constitute physical wounds but a sort of plot armor that has to be worn away - trying to measure the physical damage of weapon just doesn't cut it, not unless you want to discourage using anything but two-handed weapons all the time.

What is really needed is for weapons to open up combat options, making them worth taking. If there's a true difference in the combat style between say, a knife fighter and someone wielding a claymore, I think we'd get way more benefit than worrying about trying to size weapon damage.

 

[Gadget]

Just a quick couple of quick notes: 1) High level stuff looks pretty rough right now, I'm sure a lot of it is filler while they work out the hit point and damage in this level range.

2) bounded accuracy - I can see some of the complaints, and right now it is not very elegant at high level, but something has to increase with level. In this case, it is Hit Points and Damage. It still beats both attack bonus, defence bonus, plus damage & hit points.

 

[Stalker0]

It does get a bit ridiculous though that it's like a scene from Chronicles of Riddick where the fighter can threaten to kill an opponent with a pop-top tab just as easily as he could use a two-handed battleaxe, but there is no easy fix.

One man's ridiculous is another man's awesome.