D&D 5E L&L 3/11/2013 This Week in D&D


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GX.Sigma

Adventurer
I don't understand the amount of hate this article is getting from 4e fans. I don't see what's so offensive about it. It all sounds good to me.
 

innerdude

Legend
I don't understand the amount of hate this article is getting from 4e fans. I don't see what's so offensive about it. It all sounds good to me.

The biggest problem Mike Mearls has at this point is that he's pretty much lost credibility with the two largest factions of the D&D fanbase. WotC completely burned all of its loyal 3.x fans with 4e. And since the announcement of next, there's been little said to 4e fans to make them think Next is going to be the experience they want.

So as of now, no matter what Mearls intends, the 3e crowd subconsciously adds "And I'm the guy who created 4e" to everything he says.

I take nothing that comes from official WotC channels at face value. Absolutely nothing. At this point, D&D Next could be anything from a literal reprint of 1e with ascending Armor Class and fewer saving throws, or it could resemble the most hardcore of hardcore narrativist systems with minimal dice rolling, and it wouldn't surprise me, because in my mind, there's nothing that makes me believe anything Mearls says in these articles has any real bearing on what the end product will look like.

For the 4e supporters, they're pretty much spot on (in my opinion) that D&D Next is very specifically a reactionary move against 4e. It's "D&D - The 'Oops, My Bad for 4e'" edition.

Mearls has never come out and said it, and never will. But the design elements presented in the playtest so far seem to indicate this is the case. I think most 4e supporters would be more apt to let it go if he would just admit it. "Yes, we're building this game as a reactionary move to re-position D&D with less 4e elements." I think most 4e fans would respect that level of transparency. Doesn't mean they'd like or buy the end product, but at least they could respect the man and the company that said it. At this point they're basically left to speculate while Mearls and other WotC mouthpieces dance around the issue.

So no, I'm not surprised at all at the criticism these articles receive.
 

In 4e you are used to having only so few spells, that chosing the wrong one indeed makes your character worse... even as a mage, memorizing only the most effective and widely useful one each level is mandatory...

narrow spells, maneuvers that don´t need to be useful all the time... that is new to them.

Or spoken differently, which really matches my 4e experience... and which ultimately turned me off after a few years playing 4e:

In older editions, you looked at the present situation and thought about how to win an encounter by making the best of your tools, beeing creative and even applying spells and maneuvers in creative ways.

In 4e you looked at your charater sheet, trying to figure out, when it is the right situation to use your combat powers, no matter what happens in the actual szene. Not using up an encounter power, because it does not fit feels like wasting a resource.

This at least is myexperiene with 4e as DM and player... and I was also noticing that I that way. I didn´t mind, what the power was... just tried to figure out, when to pull it out.
One really positive experience wa the executioner, who at least mathed the older playstyle a bit more: he usually attacked with his BAB, and his at-will maneuvers were just applied, when it made sense... so not all 4e was bad, but mike mearls is spot on in his observations.

Especially fog cloud... the top encounter power in 4e was the hunter´s fog cloud, which was really really trivializing encounters... I really believe, most attacks should not be ally friendly... especially, when it makes no sense: "hey it is fog... but if you like the caster, you can easily see through it..."
 
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The biggest problem Mike Mearls has at this point is that he's pretty much lost credibility with the two largest factions of the D&D fanbase.

That is actually very sad... If I look at Next I see 4e still around... I believe there are too many people in the forums, who can´t believe, that someone learns from the past*, or that some things sound good first, but then turn out to be worse, or that not everything fits every enviroment and needs to evolve to live...
 

Li Shenron

Legend
In older editions, you looked at the present situation and thought about how to win an encounter by making the best of your tools, beeing creative and even applying spells and maneuvers in creative ways.

This has been my feeling as well.

As much as I am attached to this gaming style, which is grounded in having fixed spells at the beginning of the day due to rigid preparation rules but then having versatile spells (well at least some of them) that you can adapt, I have to say that Mearl's conceptual shift to "more flexibility in casting after preparation, less flexibility in each spell" makes sense on its own. It's not my favourite way of handling spellcasting in D&D unfortunately.
 



Raith5

Adventurer
4e fans are up in arms all over the WOTC forums at the moment- and while I sympathetic to their cause, much of it is far from constructive. A year in I guess many of them thought they would be seeing possibilities for them to continue 4th ed style games with DDN but alas cannot see it.
 


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