D&D 5E Legends & Lore 4/1/2013

:shakes head:

And, add another to the list that doesn't understand a first inkling of what "4E Feel" is...

I know I know. I'm not saying that the game "can't" be played in the vein of an RPG, but I truly believe the design goals for both games were quiet a bit different. Because mechanics worked in one game, doesn't mean its the best solution for problems in next.

I don't mean it to be diminutive, there's no need to get defensive. i just think sometimes there's a bit of cognitive dissonance between people's perception of the the aims the two systems held/hold. Calling them the same game isn't going to help define the essence of either game.
 

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This debate is confusing the heck out of me.

I like the idea of doling out your opening powers over three levels. A wizard learns the basics before being asked to pick a tradition (how very Tower of High Sorcery), a fighter masters some basics before declaring what focus he will use for the rest of his days (nothings worse than spending your first feats on two-weapon fighting, weapon finesse, and combat expertise and then getting a +1 greatsword as your first magic item).

For a new player, its training wheels. For a more experienced player, it gives him two levels to feel out his character (and see if he lives) before deciding on what paths he will go in further customization. Right around the time PCs are getting 2nd level magic and their 2nd feat, they should start looking at what paths they want to choose. THAT'S when fighters, rogues, and wizards should become Slayers, Acrobats, and Necromancers!

As an aside: I am adamantly opposed to 0 level levels. Why not just make the bottom level 1 and quit adding basements. Reminds me of a famous movie quote: "Why not just make 10 louder and make be the top and make that a little louder?" "These goes to 11!"

If you want that famous "4e feeling" of high hp and accomplished heroes out the gate, start higher and forget the apprentice tier. If you like the feeling of farm-fresh orphans getting killed in kobold mines, start at 1. And its not like there won't be ANY customization: feats/archetypes and skills/backgrounds will still be there. Its just the classes won't break out all their toys for those "one level dips" anymore.

Honestly, the only complaints I can see is from people who want their heroes uber-kewlz out the gate and don't want to wait 2-3 sessions to play with all their toys.
 

I know I know. I'm not saying that the game "can't" be played in the vein of an RPG, but I truly believe the design goals for both games were quiet a bit different. Because mechanics worked in one game, doesn't mean its the best solution for problems in next.

I don't mean it to be diminutive, there's no need to get defensive. i just think sometimes there's a bit of cognitive dissonance between people's perception of the the aims the two systems held/hold. Calling them the same game isn't going to help define the essence of either game.
That's just it though - "in the vein of an rpg" or "can be played as an rpg" is inherently dismissive, because to make that statement, you're starting from "is not an rpg." Which is rank, edition war nonsense.

And no, a "tactical rules module" is not at all the "4e feel."

-O
 

And no, a "tactical rules module" is not at all the "4e feel."

-O

Maybe I missed the thread where someone actually took the time to explain what 4e "feel" is... if so please direct me to it, if not could someone using the phrase please explain what exactly this "feel" is?
 

I know I know. I'm not saying that the game "can't" be played in the vein of an RPG...

4th Edition is obviously an RPG. I played it last night. There was role-playing involved! And when combat happened, we rolled dice! No different from a dozen other RPGs I've played over the years.
 

That's just it though - "in the vein of an rpg" or "can be played as an rpg" is inherently dismissive, because to make that statement, you're starting from "is not an rpg." Which is rank, edition war nonsense.

And no, a "tactical rules module" is not at all the "4e feel."

-O

You haven't the foggiest clue what that will look like, so how can you say that?
 


Maybe I missed the thread where someone actually took the time to explain what 4e "feel" is... if so please direct me to it, if not could someone using the phrase please explain what exactly this "feel" is?
Oh lordy... Well, it's been over a lot. But it's not summed up by "tactical rules module." Increased narrative control of all characters is a start.

Also, what [MENTION=3576]am181d[/MENTION] posted.

You haven't the foggiest clue what that will look like, so how can you say that?
A "4e-ish module?" No, I don't.

I'm saying that a "tactical rules module" that was mentioned during development is not sufficient.

-O
 


We're drifting pretty far afield of the convo and into edition war-ish territory here, so this seems like a good place to remind everyone to keep it civil, keep it on-topic, don't get personal, don't presume you know what others are thinking, and to remember this is a game about magical gumdrop elves we're talking about here. Relax.
 

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