Pathfinder 1E Barbarian Rage and Unconscious

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

We play with the 2 traits and usually 1 has to be campaign specific (if we are running an AP).

I do like the PF rules for CMB & CMD, but you are right that they are complicated. We ran into a question this past weekend when someone in our party was grappling a wizard in the party and if the wizard could cast spells while being grappled.

Interesting that you chart your rulings like that. It obviously means you know most of the rules in the game you are playing with all of the various systems, I don't know if I could keep that many rules and variants straight in my head.

 

[Aluvial]

We play with the 2 traits and usually 1 has to be campaign specific (if we are running an AP).

I do like the PF rules for CMB & CMD, but you are right that they are complicated. We ran into a question this past weekend when someone in our party was grappling a wizard in the party and if the wizard could cast spells while being grappled.

Interesting that you chart your rulings like that. It obviously means you know most of the rules in the game you are playing with all of the various systems, I don't know if I could keep that many rules and variants straight in my head.

My issue really isn't with the new combat maneuvers except grapple. The problem as I see it is that it gives both the grappled condition... and THEN.. you have to go look that up. I would pay through the nose for a book that reprinted rules that you obviously would need to look up in the original mention of the rules. OR at least give the page number! Damn! The PFSRD is great... if you open a few tabs.

As for the charting, it was born out of rule discussions. I would rule, the players would say, no, that's not how it is, we would look it up, I would be right... wash, rinse, repeat. After awhile, I claimed I was getting 75% of these rulings correct, could we agree that was good enough.... if it was life and death, we would stop and look, otherwise the ruling stood, assuming that I got most right. The players said "hell no" and I said, "well, I'll chart it. And if I'm 75% right or more, then you guys will stop the rules lawyering." They agreed and then I started charting... after 4 months I was at 98% and that stopped the table debates. AND we get so much more done. Instead of two combats a session, I can sometime get 4 and have started adding complicated terrain to the mix... which is fun!

Oh, big house rule... roll your damage dice WITH your d20! Big time waster waiting for someone to roll their second die. You can cut that time in half by doing it at the same time. I have some guys who roll a red d20s along with the original roll and extra red damage dice just in case they get a critical hit. So much faster...

Aluvial

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

There are so many rules to look up that sometimes it does get frustrating when something pops up which isn't used a lot. We use RULE 0 quite often and then go back and look up rules later if there was some kind of debate rather than stopping the game and looking things up. The only time we stop is when it's life/death too, because that is too important and can change the course of a campaign.

When you guys play, how many hours do you usually go? We do 6 hour sessions and can get through quite a bit of role playing and 2-3 combats.

Oh ya, we do the house-rule of d20 + damage dice as well! That does speed things up, we also instituted a rule that if people take longer than 60 seconds to decide what to do they are placed on delay and the next initiative goes. That keeps people a bit more on their toes and keeps combat moving along. The other thing we've done is instead of rolling extra dice for 2x or 3x damage on crits, we just take the damage dice and actually multiply it out by 2x or 3x, makes things faster than rolling out those extras. I do like that crit dice being rolled with damage though, I might have to talk to the group about that one.

 

[Aluvial]

There are so many rules to look up that sometimes it does get frustrating when something pops up which isn't used a lot. We use RULE 0 quite often and then go back and look up rules later if there was some kind of debate rather than stopping the game and looking things up. The only time we stop is when it's life/death too, because that is too important and can change the course of a campaign.

When you guys play, how many hours do you usually go? We do 6 hour sessions and can get through quite a bit of role playing and 2-3 combats.

Oh ya, we do the house-rule of d20 + damage dice as well! That does speed things up, we also instituted a rule that if people take longer than 60 seconds to decide what to do they are placed on delay and the next initiative goes. That keeps people a bit more on their toes and keeps combat moving along. The other thing we've done is instead of rolling extra dice for 2x or 3x damage on crits, we just take the damage dice and actually multiply it out by 2x or 3x, makes things faster than rolling out those extras. I do like that crit dice being rolled with damage though, I might have to talk to the group about that one.

We play for about 4 hours a week. That has recently been cut to about 3 1/2 due to kids.

We do the delay thing as well. I want a BIG digital 15 second clock. What says goes... then I rule on it! Your turn! Tick-tock!

I won't multiply the crit dice because you get to many highs and lows.

I have a rule where you roll if you are getting the healing... which is what the group wanted... until we had Healing Surges! Now if the Cleric does a Healing Surge, then he rolls and that number goes for everyone. Which brings me to Healing Surges... which I use, but don't really like. The group cleric took extra surges as a feat... and has 6 of them at 3d6 a pop. I think it should be a cone. The burst I understand... but it is too broad. The cone eliminates 75% of that area. I haven't changed it yet, but I've not been able to kill a party member yet either with a reasonable or even tough encounter. I've been close... but then comes the Healing Surge. Do you have problems with this?

Aluvial

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

That's a good chuck though, 3.5-4 hours isn't too bad to be able to play per week. We play every 2 weeks, which is why we get in the 6 hour sessions.

The group is pretty good about the time it takes now, we don't need a clock to do it, the DM will just look over and say, "better hurry up I'm giving you another couple of seconds to decide and then you are delayed!"

We figured it out with the probabilities and the multiplied dice vs rolling 2x or 3x averages the same so everyone is fine with it. Sometimes you roll high sometimes you roll low, but in the end an average is an average. We also allow people to use the crit hit and crit fumble cards (as an option) rather than the static damage. Sometimes things work out nicely and other times they suck. It's the fickle dice gods at work though.

So you use healing surges (from 4E) rather than channeling positive energy (from Pathfinder)? I kind of like the all around rather than the cone as the healing energies flow out from the cleric in all directions, it's a cool visual to me. Maybe instead of a cone you can do a distance thing in a surge around the cleric? Like the closer to the cleric the higher the surge? So say 0-15 feet is the 3d6, 20-30 feet is 2d6, and 35-50 feet is 1d6? Or some other equal increments based off of how far it's supposed to reach out. This might alleviate the cleric from just standing back and healing the guys way up in front w/o getting into danger and if he moves up he has to dodge around some enemies to get into position, making this a tactical and practical decision on his part. Just an idea.

 

[Aluvial]

We figured it out with the probabilities and the multiplied dice vs rolling 2x or 3x averages the same so everyone is fine with it. Sometimes you roll high sometimes you roll low, but in the end an average is an average. We also allow people to use the crit hit and crit fumble cards (as an option) rather than the static damage. Sometimes things work out nicely and other times they suck. It's the fickle dice gods at work though.

So you use healing surges (from 4E) rather than channeling positive energy (from Pathfinder)? I kind of like the all around rather than the cone as the healing energies flow out from the cleric in all directions, it's a cool visual to me. Maybe instead of a cone you can do a distance thing in a surge around the cleric? Like the closer to the cleric the higher the surge? So say 0-15 feet is the 3d6, 20-30 feet is 2d6, and 35-50 feet is 1d6? Or some other equal increments based off of how far it's supposed to reach out. This might alleviate the cleric from just standing back and healing the guys way up in front w/o getting into danger and if he moves up he has to dodge around some enemies to get into position, making this a tactical and practical decision on his part. Just an idea.

I called it the wrong thing. It is channel energy. I don't do healing surges. I like the distance idea... is it up to 50'? I thought it only went to 30'.

Aluvial

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I was just tossing out a number.

Channeling is 30-foot radius centered on the cleric, so it's a 60-foot diameter all the way around and it goes up in power by 1d6 every two levels so by level 20 the cleric is healing/damaging 10d6.

If you wanted to go with my idea for distances it'd be:

5-10 ft is full effect / 15-20 ft is 2/3rds effect / 25-30ft is 1/3rd effect
(Never less than 1 though, so even if the cleric rolls a 1 the 2nd/3rd out still get at least 1 hp back).

Progression:
Level 1/2 (1d6) - Up to 6 / up to 4 / up to 2
Level 3/4 (2d6) - Up to 12 / up to 8 / up to 4
Level 5/6 (3d6) - Up to 18 / up to 12 / up to 6
Level 7/8 (4d6) - Up to 24 / up to 16 / up to 8
Level 9/10 (5d6) - Up to 30 / up to 20 / up to 10
Level 11/12 (6d6) - Up to 36 / up to 24 / up to 12
Level 13/14 (7d6) - Up to 42 / up to 28 / up to 14
Level 15/16 (8d6) - Up to 48 / up to 32 / up to 16
Level 17/18 (9d6) - Up to 54 / up to 36 / up to 18
Level 19/20 (10d6) - Up to 60 / up to 40 / up to 20

 

[Aluvial]

I was just tossing out a number.

Channeling is 30-foot radius centered on the cleric, so it's a 60-foot diameter all the way around and it goes up in power by 1d6 every two levels so by level 20 the cleric is healing/damaging 10d6.

If you wanted to go with my idea for distances it'd be:

5-10 ft is full effect / 15-20 ft is 2/3rds effect / 25-30ft is 1/3rd effect
(Never less than 1 though, so even if the cleric rolls a 1 the 2nd/3rd out still get at least 1 hp back).

It's not a bad idea. It might be complicated in practice. I like that the power is stronger with a varient effect. I might just split it in half though. Within 15 is full, out from there is 1/2. Keep the burst. I may try this. I might let them add 50% if you are right next to the cleric...

Aluvial

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Oh yeah, 1/2 would be good too. Much simpler than the 3rds thing and then not as harsh either for the cleric, but still enough to make him want to make sure he's not sitting back the max and being the healbot.

 

[Aluvial]

Oh yeah, 1/2 would be good too. Much simpler than the 3rds thing and then not as harsh either for the cleric, but still enough to make him want to make sure he's not sitting back the max and being the healbot.

I like the idea of him giving adjacent characters 50% more... then full out to 15', then 1/2 out to 30'. I'm going to get the usual "your nerfing it bit" but then the 50% more will make it more like the "I move up to touch" deal that I think is missing. Or they can have the 30' cone.

Aluvial -- Nerfing his players for over 20 years!