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D&D 5E My nearly comprehensive critique of the August Packet

Pierson_Lowgal

First Post
Backgrounds and Lore: I hate this version of skills. I understand it, and I see the value in spurring character development by restricting skills to knowledges and precluding an abundance of 'spot' as a choice, but I hate it. First, I want more customizability when I create my character, especially the choice to train in a skill that lies outside the character's ability scores, like a mage who swims. Second, the realism is terrible: a 10 Intelligence character knows 55% of all hard facts at first level, and never gets any better. A character who grew up raising animals can know lots of facts about domesticated animals, and knows how to use a whip (artisan's tool), but all his/her knowledge has no mechanical impact.

Also, with the DC's remaining unchanged, character's who don't get an expertise die or pretty much going to be bad at things they should be good at. Creating a real imbalance between knowledges and practical usage. A medium DC persuade, first aid etc... is now less than 50% chance of success even with a high ability score.

Bestiary: Needs serious work, but I hope you knew that. Mostly, do you really want monsters with such low bonuses to attack confronting PCs with 18 AC at level 1? And 19 AC with banded mail at few levels higher? Who is playtesting the game at level 8 and up? There are nearly no monsters rated, by experience, as average or tough at those levels: I hope this represents a great length of time between a finished product and now. The Orc seems way too swingy, I want to use them, but I don't.

Character Creation: when 'ability score improvement' allows for a single attribute to be raised by 2 points, you provide every incentive for characters to have all scores at first level, after racial adjustment, to be even. The wizard in my group now has 4 14s (see human/overpowered).

Classes: This is not a thorough review of every class feature, just things in some of the classes I noticed. Dealbreaker: no rolling for hit points: hit point totals are permanent and critically important. Replacing deadly strike with two attacks was a good change, it corrects the two weapon fighting imbalance, except for the rogue problem...

Cleric: all turn undead, why? Moreover, the historical turn undead is a terrible mechanic. Undead running away or be destroyed outright isn't dramatic; running away can lead to lots of strange and even negative consequences. Given the undead disadvantage on attacks and saving throws until damaged, to show how they cower or are weakened by the cleric's divine energy.

Fighter: naming conventions: if you want to divide the subclasses by complexity, than you shouldn't also include role-playing features or names, it confuses your purpose.

Mage: I prefer “wizard” and I think a generation of people adjusted to, “you're a wizard Harry,” do also. Scribe scroll should be adjusted to clarify that scrolls written by others don't count toward this limit? If only 10th level mages can brew potions, then there should be almost zero potions in the world. Having said that, I greatly appreciate an effort to limit the proliferation of PC-created scrolls and potions.

Paladin: the aura of protection, as written, allows the paladin's charisma bonus to stack with his/her or the allies attribute bonus. This seems massively overpowered. This ability needs a much lower cap. The prior edition recognized that mounts are difficult to use in play, why has this been forgotten? Why are divine health and aura of courage so high level? At low levels, I'd rather see an emphasis on paladin abilities than on spells.

Rogue: the balance between in and out of combat usefulness is an issue. By my quick math, the rogue is terrible in combat after 8th level, as the only class besides mage without two attacks. He/she also must dual wield to apply sneak attack more often. I don't think its appropriate to label a subclass assassin, nor do I think it appropriate for good-aligned rogues to use poison. In the introduction of poison also requires lists of poisons and prices, which is more bookkeeping and managing for the GM.

DM Guidelines: Are exploration tasks part of the basic rules in a dungeon and optional in the wilderness, I find this strange. Also, I think the affects and requirements of readiness both for player and non-player groups needs clarification, though I generally like the ideas presented. If the purpose of exploration tasks is to limit the number of people who are 'spotting' dangers, then the game needs more tasks. How does 'sneaking' work when the PC is in a group? While I like permanent magic items being special, and not part of expected combat math, they are really hard to find in this rule. I think most players will want more magic items than they'll find via this system. While I realize it doesn't work well with your treasure approach, the treasure-by-level system in 4th edition removed a huge bookkeeping time sink from the GM.

Equipment: Expenses should be optional, as GM, I don't prioritize keeping track of monetary treasure, which I would have to do to use this system. Given how low the attack bonuses of monsters are, I think the game should be rid of armors between chain mail and plate mail. 500Gp seems a bit low for dragon hide armors? The critical feature imbalances the weapons, at least the longsword, battle axe, warhammer and morningstar, the opposing feature: versatile, is practically valueless.

Feats: Jerry the 3rd level archer is a good shot, Jerry the 4th level archery master is amazing, and will only get marginally better over the next dozen levels: terrible realism. With the goal of maintaining this balance between very simple and complex options, you can divide the mega-feat into pieces, which occupy multiple 'ability score increase' choices.

How-to-Play: we're better off without 'disarm'. If disadvantage applies twice and advantage once, is that disadvantage? Why no advantage against prone targets? The grappling rules describe the affects on the grappler, but then you have to go to the conditions section to find the affects on the grappled. 'Hinder' is rife for abuse when PCs face one big enemy. 'Help' effectively means automatic advantage on all out of combat skill checks. As written, 'ready' does not change the readyer's initiative.

Magic Items: a belt of Giant Strength should give a bonus to strength, and by capped at a certain strength number. It is imbalanced to go from 8 strength to over 20. 3rd editions divine power was errata'd to correct this misjudgement.

Races: continue to be phenomenally badly designed. The human +1 to all creates the bizarre situation of all human PCs having the same bonus to dexterity as elf PCs, and thus effectively as dextrous as elves, as tough as dwarves etc... The human +1 to all then requires orcs to get +2 strength, which is very powerful. The human +1 seems? To be overpowered? I'd get rid of gnomes altogether, where's the audience for a second small race with little popular culture cache?
 

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One place I strongly disagree with you is on belts of giant strength. Maybe have a weaker item, the girdle of strength that gives you a +2 boost to Strength, but a belt of giant strength should make even a weakling have a mighty strength. That's just fun. Who cares if it's overpowered as long as it's fun?

If I had my way, though, it wouldn't adjust your stats at all, just give you an increase to lifting ability and effective size, to let you more easily grab and throw things, without increasing your weapon damage.
 

It sounds like they're really losing the plot. I haven't followed the development for the past few packets because they kept making changes for the worse. Looks like the trend hasn't ended.

I'm disappointed, but I still have Pathfinder.
 

Mandatory treasure levels by class is just about the easiest house rule to the game possible. Perhaps they could give a relationship of treasure to class level/monster rating, but then that too should be open to increase or decrease. This isn't a hard change, but why then keep the more complicated system they have?

The answer is simple. Players are rewarded in game for the play in game.

If you befriend an NPC you gain a friend.
If you pick up the fist-sized diamond, you can use it to trade for other treasure.

However,
If your wealth is fixed, then why pick up any treasure at any time?
"Don't bother. We're 4th level and have all the treasure we are going to get already. When we level up then we can choose what we want. It's best for everyone really. The DM puts anything and everything in the adventures. We get whatever we want when we level. No one has to cramp their fingers from writing down the meaningless details. And besides, carrying all that gold is only going to slow us down."
 

Mandatory treasure levels by class is just about the easiest house rule to the game possible. Perhaps they could give a relationship of treasure to class level/monster rating, but then that too should be open to increase or decrease. This isn't a hard change, but why then keep the more complicated system they have?

The answer is simple. Players are rewarded in game for the play in game.

If you befriend an NPC you gain a friend.
If you pick up the fist-sized diamond, you can use it to trade for other treasure.

However,
If your wealth is fixed, then why pick up any treasure at any time?
"Don't bother. We're 4th level and have all the treasure we are going to get already. When we level up then we can choose what we want. It's best for everyone really. The DM puts anything and everything in the adventures. We get whatever we want when we level. No one has to cramp their fingers from writing down the meaningless details. And besides, carrying all that gold is only going to slow us down."

Fixed wealth-by-level worked in 3e because the monsters math assumed the PCs had certain bonuses/benefits from magic normally. It was a fair system on its own, but clearly the BIG restriction is that it dictated strong implications on magic items availability in the fantasy world. Personally the part I really didn't like about that system, was the fact that you also had to give magic items to NPCs for balancing them, which of course the PCs would then collect every time after the battle.

5e promised no such thing, in order to allow complete freedom to each group to play anything between no-magic-items and monty haul. Then of course, monsters are going inevitably to be designed with some (unspoken) assumptions that however have to be quite low in that range IMHO.

Random treasure tables then, become only an example, but they could explicitly suggest the DM to just ignore table rolls which result in magic items if the group already has too many, in relation to the wanted magic availability in the fantasy world.
 


It sounds like they're really losing the plot. I haven't followed the development for the past few packets because they kept making changes for the worse. Looks like the trend hasn't ended.

I'm disappointed, but I still have Pathfinder.

The current changes are not indicative of the status quo of the final rules. The changes are kinda like a brainstorming experiment to see what exotic ideas might stick. Just because they removed skills from this packet doesnt mean that they have the intention of removing them completely from the final rules for example. It's just a test. Just an experiment.

-YRUSirius
 


It did for us... (tho I've never played up to 20th level, only up to a 15th-17th party).
I'm not saying that no one can run a successful game using the guidelines, but I definitely don't agree that that approach, as a whole, worked.

IME, deviating from those guidelines works well at all levels, including up to and beyond 20th.
 

Into the Woods

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