D&D 5E So How Many Different Kinds of Elves Can There Be? A Thread on Subraces

[Kinak]

Yeah, put me in the "as few subraces as possible" column... none, if that's an option.

Personal preference aside, I think high/eladrin and wood/4e elves are good. Half-elves could be slotted in as an elven subrace too, depending how things should be organized. Aquatic elves are probably fine when they do an aquatic book, drow I'd rather not see as PCs but could be a subrace, and winged elves if they come up with a way to make that work for PCs.

So 2 to 6, leaning heavily towards the low end of the scale.

A redesigned elf race could probably have subraces that are a lot more appealing, though. Elves with subraces for the seasons, for example, or subraces tied to the backstory of a setting. I wouldn't expect to see that outside of a 3PP, though.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This is all true, but d20 is a granular system and doesn't deal well with such small things.

If you check my follow up to the post you quoted, you'll see I propose that D&D designers tried to do exactly that with some of the previously published subraces.

It's not like the bigger lung capacity of the Sherpas or the hire tolerance for animal fats among Inuits are the only adaptations those people have made to their environments. But they're all humans. Just humans,

Yet we have wild AND wood elves, etc.

 

[Dioltach]

I wonder how many people in fantasy worlds refer to wood elves as shelves?

 

[Remathilis]

Really, there aren't THAT many subraces, once you start to boil them down to common element. Even at their peak, there was only ever a dozen or so per race anyway. Most were world-specific (valley, qualinesti, valenar, or star elves) or terrain specific (arctic, desert, aquatic) and easily forgettable.

A good mix should be

Elf: High, Gray/Eladrin, Wood, Aquatic, Drow*
Dwarf: Hill, Mountain/Deep, Duergar*
Gnome: Rock, Forest, Snirfneblin*
Halfling: Hairfoot/Lightfoot, Stout, Tallfellow
Half-elf/Half-orc/Human: None

For additional races:
Shifter: Beasthide, Longtooth, Razorclaw, Longstride
Tiefling: Fey'ri, Hellborn
Aasimar: Lightborn, Deva
Dragonborn: Spellscale

* Probably better as they're own race at this point.

Then, if specific settings want to intro in specific subraces, more power to them.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Really, there aren't THAT many subraces, once you start to boil them down to common element. Even at their peak, there was only ever a dozen or so per race anyway. Most were world-specific (valley, qualinesti, valenar, or star elves) or terrain specific (arctic, desert, aquatic) and easily forgettable.

A good mix should be

Elf: High, Gray/Eladrin, Wood, Aquatic, Drow*

That's one too many. High and gray elves (and eladrin) are the same thing. They're just different names for the same species in different settings (I think gray elves are Greyhawk, and eladrin are Points of Light).

Dwarf: Hill, Mountain/Deep, Duergar*

That's still the same thing. Hill/mountain/deep dwarves are just cultural groups. This is made clearer in Dragonlance than in other settings, where the seven different types of dwarves are just clans (except possibly the gully dwarves, who are either part-gnome or modified by Chaos). I vaguely recall one of the clans was supposedly part-human to explain their ability to use arcane magic.

Gnome: Rock, Forest, Snirfneblin*

Rock gnomes are dwarf gnomes, forest gnomes are elf gnomes... no wonder gnomes have had such trouble being cool and distinct. It wasn't until Eberron (and then Pathfinder and 4e) that they had identities distinct from elves, dwarves and halflings. There's no need for the two first types of gnomes to be subraces.

Halfling: Hairfoot/Lightfoot, Stout, Tallfellow

These were loosely based on differences among halflings in Middle-earth. The Tooks were Tallfellows/Fallohides. Of course, they lived literally next door from other "types" of halflings. They're not even different ethnic groups. That's more like a family tradition, so a background.

 

[Nellisir]

Yet we have wild AND wood elves, etc.

That's one that's never really clicked for me. Elves live in the forest. Wood elves live...deeper in the forest. And wild elves live deepest in the forest, and don't like people.

 

[Nellisir]

That's one too many. High and gray elves (and eladrin) are the same thing. They're just different names for the same species in different settings (I think gray elves are Greyhawk, and eladrin are Points of Light).

Grey elves and wood elves are distinct subraces at least as early as the 1st Ed. MM.

Gray Elf (Faerie): These noble elves are the rarest and most powerful of their kind. They are more intelligent than other sorts (+ 1 on dice roll for intelligence), and those few with supra-genius abilities can become wizards. They are very reclusive, live in isolated meadowlands, and never associate with any other humanoids, other than elves, for long - or with frequency. They usually are armored with chain mail and shield, and all carry swords. Grey elves often (50%) have hippogriffs as steeds (70%) or actually use griffons (3-12) as guards/mounts (30%). They speak the same languages as do high elves. Grey elves have either silver hair and amber eyes or pale golden hair and violet eyes. The latter sort are generally called faeries. They favor white, yellow, silver, or gold garments. Their cloaks are often deep blue or purple. They live beyond the age of 1.500 years.

Wood Elf: Sometimes called sylvan elves, these creatures are very reclusive and generally (75%) avoid all contact. Wood elves are more neutral than are other elves. They are unusually strong for elves (add +1 to all die rolls, treating 19 as 18). but they are not quite as intelligent (treat 18 intelligence as 17). They usually wear studded leather or ring mail (armor class 6) and fully 50% of any band is equipped with bows. Only 20% carry swords. 40% of wood elves use spears. The lair of a band of wood elves is usually (70%) guarded by 2-8 giant owls (80%) or by 1-6 giant lynx (20%). They live in primaeval forests and distant woodlands. Wood elves speak only elvish and the languages of certain woods animals and treants. Their complexions are fair, their hair is yellow to coppery red and their eyes are light brown, light green, or hazel. They wear russets, reds, brown and tans. Their cloaks are usually green or greenish brown. Wood elves have a life span of centuries.

There are many sorts of elves, and descriptions of the differing types are found in ADVANCED DUNGEONS 8 DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL. Elven player characters are always considered to be high elves, the most common sort of elf.

Unearthed Arcana made the different subraces playable, and introduced grugach (wild elves) and valley elves. I do notice now that it's possible to read the gray elves entry as though they are extraordinary individuals, rather than an entire subrace.

In 4e, wood/wild elves remained elves, and high/grey elves became eladrin. Basically a Nature vs Magic division.

In the Forgotten Realms, gray elves (aka moon or silver elves) were the default because they were more solitary and did not retreat in great numbers to Evereska. High (gold, sunrising) elves were more aloof and less common outside of Evereska. Wood elves were known as copper, green, wild, or forest elves, and did not retreat in great numbers either, but didn't associate with humans either.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

That's one that's never really clicked for me. Elves live in the forest. Wood elves live...deeper in the forest. And wild elves live deepest in the forest, and don't like people.

The differences were strictly cultural. One group lived in cities but went back to the forest. That might not even be enough to count as a cultural group (but they're effectively a different country), and that's certainly not enough to be a subrace.

 

[GravyFingerz]

I like the flexibility of subraces without having to stat up each different kind of elf as their own race a la 3.5.

 

[Remathilis]

That's one too many. High and gray elves (and eladrin) are the same thing. They're just different names for the same species in different settings (I think gray elves are Greyhawk, and eladrin are Points of Light).

Not really. You have classic elves (who are both magical and woodland) the fey/ubermagical gray elves (which eladrin fill in 4e) and the xenophoic and uber-foresty wood/wild elves. Aquatic aren't really PCs, drow are evil.

That's still the same thing. Hill/mountain/deep dwarves are just cultural groups. This is made clearer in Dragonlance than in other settings, where the seven different types of dwarves are just clans (except possibly the gully dwarves, who are either part-gnome or modified by Chaos). I vaguely recall one of the clans was supposedly part-human to explain their ability to use arcane magic.

Hill dwarves live near the surface and fight orcs and giants. Mountain dwarves live under the mountains and fight mind flayers. And Dragonlance had Gulley dwarves which should invalidate ANY argument of using it to define dwarven culture. ;-)

Rock gnomes are dwarf gnomes, forest gnomes are elf gnomes... no wonder gnomes have had such trouble being cool and distinct. It wasn't until Eberron (and then Pathfinder and 4e) that they had identities distinct from elves, dwarves and halflings. There's no need for the two first types of gnomes to be subraces.

So you have rock gnomes filling the basic/1e/2e style gnomes, and forest the 3e/4e/Pathfinder gnomes. Best of both worlds!

These were loosely based on differences among halflings in Middle-earth. The Tooks were Tallfellows/Fallohides. Of course, they lived literally next door from other "types" of halflings. They're not even different ethnic groups. That's more like a family tradition, so a background.

In D&D, stout have an affinity for mining and like dwarves, tallfellows are more fey and love elves.

Seriously, I'd rather see a couple of subraces like this than yet another half-monster race!