Pathfinder 1E Is Pathfinder going to slow down?

[delericho]

While there are multiple moving parts, so to speak, they are each of a rather simple nature and normally seem fairly intuitive in application.

It's not the individual moving parts; it's the interactions! Especially since, until quite late on (PHB2), 3e* didn't by default allow retraining, that meant that at each step you had to be sure to pick up the right thing, or you were at your DM's mercy to swap it out. In the worst-case, you might have to have your 20-level build worked out from the outset of the campaign, so that you didn't get hit with those nasty opportunity costs... or, of course, not worry about it, and just have fun with your less-than-perfectly-optimal character... but that's crazy-talk.

* Not sure about Pathfinder and retraining, but it inherited a lot, including a lot of assumptions, from 3e.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Retraining was a formal optional rule in the Ultimate Campaign.

 

[Wicht]

I confess I rarely worry about whether or not characters, PC or NPC, are optimized.

 

[N'raac]

I confess I rarely worry about whether or not characters, PC or NPC, are optimized.

A matter of taste, and as long as the group is on similar ground re extent of optimization, probably not a big deal. If you have min/maxers frustrated because another player didn't dump some stats to maximize others, or took the "wrong feat" this level, its a problem. Similarly if the role players are frustrated that their characters are irrelevant due to the min/maxer's optimization, we have a problem. If everyone is having fun, no problem.

I find "optimized" often goes hand in hand with "boring cookie cutter". While Pathfinder seems less prone to this than 3.5, the concept that each and every Barbarian should have a religious experience and hurt their leg at a specific level sits poorly with me.

 

[Wicht]

While Pathfinder seems less prone to this than 3.5, the concept that each and every Barbarian should have a religious experience and hurt their leg at a specific level sits poorly with me.

I don't even know what this means.

 

[N'raac]

There is an Oracle curse, Lame, that, if your character level (not class level) is high enough, you become immune to fatigue. It takes 10' off your movement speed. Lame, indeed, when every Barbarian dips a level in.

 

[MerricB]

Due to the nature of how Pathfinder doesn't include everything you need in stat blocks, the game has become far more complex than 3E in terms of system mastery. This is particularly evident in NPC stat blocks, where you'll get a lot of obscure references. There is basically a requirement now to have a device with you to access the PRD, because looking up every reference in the actual books is terribly time-consuming. (Doing it on-the-fly at the table? You probably couldn't carry all the books there).

 

[Wicht]

There is an Oracle curse, Lame, that, if your character level (not class level) is high enough, you become immune to fatigue. It takes 10' off your movement speed. Lame, indeed, when every Barbarian dips a level in.

I've never encountered any barbarians with any level in it.

 

[Wicht]

Due to the nature of how Pathfinder doesn't include everything you need in stat blocks, the game has become far more complex than 3E in terms of system mastery. This is particularly evident in NPC stat blocks, where you'll get a lot of obscure references. There is basically a requirement now to have a device with you to access the PRD, because looking up every reference in the actual books is terribly time-consuming. (Doing it on-the-fly at the table? You probably couldn't carry all the books there).

That has yet to become a problem for me. Not saying it couldn't happen. But I really don't think its there yet. If I encounter something unfamiliar to me in a stat-block, I try to look it up beforehand, but I can't think of the last time that really happened. But maybe I'm more willing to "wing" it than some or perhaps my system mastery is of such a nature that I simply don't notice it.

Though I don't think the latter is true. What I do sometimes do is ask my children what a particular power does because they are at that age where reading and memorizing all the rules is just what they do. I remember being that way myself when I was younger but anymore I just sort of go with what "feels" like the right ruling most of the time if I am not clear and then look it up afterward.

 

[Wicht]

Putting forth the Barbarian/Oracle "cheat" to my children, they responded that don't think they would take the level in oracle on anything like a regular basis for their Barbarian characters. There are other workarounds to fatigue and its rarely that big an issue anyway in actual play (especially by 9th level, which the the first time you could do it). Most of the time, when the barbarian finishes raging, the fight is over. The few times it was an issue in fight, in our current game, the divine channeler was able to remove the fatigue with a touch. The loss of speed also dismays my oldest daughter who apparently is partial to the fast movement of a barbarian (though she normally plays spellcasters). So I doubt this is going to be much of an issue for our game.