D&D 4E Is anyone running Murder in Baldur's Gate with 4E? (and other 4E adventure design issues)

[pemerton]

very very slow moving.

All I know about it are [MENTION=3586]MerricB[/MENTION]'s actual play posts, but they did give me the impression that it was slow moving.

 

[D'karr]

I've been running it since the beginning, and it is very slow. This is the first season in which I'm actually tired of running the adventure, and we're not even halfway through the adventure. This might be more due to my lack of interest in the "storyline" for the adventure.

The adventure does "require" a lot of preparation / improvisation from the DM. IMO, this was not a good fit for a D&D Encounters season(limited run time, limited prep time, easy to get started, etc.). I would never give this adventure to a newbie DM and say, "go run with it."

 

[MerricB]

I've been running it since the beginning, and it is very slow. This is the first season in which I'm actually tired of running the adventure, and we're not even halfway through the adventure. This might be more due to my lack of interest in the "storyline" for the adventure.

The adventure does "require" a lot of preparation / improvisation from the DM. IMO, this was not a good fit for a D&D Encounters season(limited run time, limited prep time, easy to get started, etc.). I would never give this adventure to a newbie DM and say, "go run with it."

I think it's a great adventure, but a very poor fit for Encounters. With a week between sessions, it crawls. Compress it to 8 weeks and it would soar. I'm inventive enough and have engaged enough players so that we're having a lot of fun with it, but there wasn't enough thought about making it both a good one to run at home and a good one for Encounters.

In a home game? It should be great.

 

[D'karr]

I think it's a great adventure, but a very poor fit for Encounters. With a week between sessions, it crawls. Compress it to 8 weeks and it would soar. I'm inventive enough and have engaged enough players so that we're having a lot of fun with it, but there wasn't enough thought about making it both a good one to run at home and a good one for Encounters.

In a home game? It should be great.

I think this (highlighted) is a matter of taste. I'm finding it very hard to enjoy this adventure at all. And it has nothing to do with the mechanics, which are mostly non-existent. Don't get me wrong, the players are having a great time. But it is not because of the adventure material provided. I'm really having to work hard to overcome the lack of inspiration from this adventure. None of the hooks are compelling. None of the NPCs are even worthwhile. The only NPC that has even caught the player's interest was the "hairdresser" (alchemist), and that was because the entire session was ad-libbed.

As a Forgotten Realms campaign resource, the campaign guide is mildly interesting, but definitely not a block-buster. It has no index which makes it even more useless for easy/quick reference. It's organized in a way that makes it very difficult to use as a campaign reference guide. I had to quickly look for information on a particular NPC. Since the adventure is rather open-ended this comes up often. I had a hell-of-a-time finding his information. The information is there but difficult to find and access during play, which is when I'm going to need it.

If I had actually paid money for this adventure ($35) I would be even more disappointed. The map/screen is interesting and somewhat eye-catching, but the internal information (DM side) is rather lack-luster. So much so that at times it is worthless. Finding any information on the map is rather difficult, unless you get intimately familiar with the city layout. The numbers on the internal map are not easily ordered/sequenced to make it easy to follow. I tried to find a location by its name, and finding where it was located on the map was obnoxiously incoherent. When I'm looking for information during play I want it to be accessible, and this adventure does not do that well, if at all.

The production values are good, the text is clearly readable, the illustrations are very nice, and the map is very pretty. The "illo" of Coran (sp?) is the stupidest in the book, but I guess that is just a nit-pick. However for "at the table" functionality, I would grade this a "C-". Both as an adventure, and even more importantly as a reference guide it does not pass the "smell test".

As a comparison, the Neverwinter Campaign Setting (NWCS) was $40, hardbound, 223 pages, has a functional/usable Table of Contents, a foldup map, 60+ pages of player options, a few monsters, monsters per area tables, and many adventure ideas and hooks. NWCS does not include a "functional" adventure but enough hooks to create many. MiBG has an adventure, but for the amount of work required from the DM I would not call it functional.

If I'm paying that much money for an "adventure" I expect some value, and I'm not really finding it here.

IMO, for Encounters it is a horrible fit. For a home game it is usable. I know that if I had purchased this to run it for my home group I would be very disappointed with the purchase. YMMV.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip) If I'm paying that much money for an "adventure" I expect some value, and I'm not really finding it here.

​

IMO, for Encounters it is a horrible fit. For a home game it is usable. I know that if I had purchased this to run it for my home group I would be very disappointed with the purchase. YMMV.

I think it's just a dud, particularly when you compare it to the Neverwinter Campaign Setting as you do. And for Encounters? Gee, someone's trying to kill that programme, aren't they?

An adventure that you have to create after you've paid for it? I didn't like that when TSR squeezed out the less-than-stellar T1-4 Temple of Incomplete & Generic Evil and I don't like it nearly 30 years later either.

I think once the initial enthusiasm for the first (?) published adventure of a new edition wears off it will be seen for what it is: a dud.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[GX.Sigma]

In a home game? It should be great.

I have run it for two groups. They both had the exact same reaction: they got bored of having nothing to do, and tired of all the red herrings (and the fact that apparently no one cares about solving the mysterious high-profile murder that kicked it all off), and decided to make something happen and skip town.

Group A decided to

Spoiler

search Skoond's house on a whim and found the map. They looked into it, and deduced that Silvershield was planning to blow up Parliament. They brought him to justice, became honorary Flaming Fist members, and left Baldur's Gate as heroes.

Group B didn't even last one session before they got fed up. They stole a magic sword from Sorcerous Sundries and ran away. I pulled out a one page dungeon (Bastion of the Boglings) and the whole group had infinitely more fun.

I think it could work if it's in the background of a campaign where the players actually get to play D&D (like if the Undercellar is a megadungeon), but on its own it's a non-adventure.

 

[Jhaelen]

An adventure that you have to create after you've paid for it? I didn't like that when TSR squeezed out the less-than-stellar T1-4 Temple of Incomplete & Generic Evil and I don't like it nearly 30 years later either.

Ha! Word.

 

[MerricB]

As a comparison, the Neverwinter Campaign Setting (NWCS) was $40, hardbound, 223 pages, has a functional/usable Table of Contents, a foldup map, 60+ pages of player options, a few monsters, monsters per area tables, and many adventure ideas and hooks. NWCS does not include a "functional" adventure but enough hooks to create many. MiBG has an adventure, but for the amount of work required from the DM I would not call it functional.

The NWCS is about as good a product as I've seen. You are quite correct: MiBG is nowhere near that good. I would be particularly interested in if MiBG was ever playtested. We're still having fun with it, but it requires a lot of me.

The lack of an index in the campaign guide is pathetic.

 

[D'karr]

The NWCS is about as good a product as I've seen. You are quite correct: MiBG is nowhere near that good. I would be particularly interested in if MiBG was ever playtested. We're still having fun with it, but it requires a lot of me.

The lack of an index in the campaign guide is pathetic.

I would say that (highlighted) is probably my second biggest gripe with the adventure. It takes too much work out of me to make it worthwhile. The lack of organization (index / TOC) is probably my biggest gripe on usability because in addition to all the work I have to put in, it is very hard to find/use information. The "uninspiring" adventure is my biggest gripe, but that is a matter of preference/taste. Some might find it very inspiring, I didn't.

 

[Larrin]

I've been DMing 4e for Encounters this session, and its good to hear pretty much everything I've felt echoed here.

A couple things I would add/reiterate:
1. With a diplomatically minded party there are NO natural combat encounters in the first 6 stages.
1b. until things get really bad, there's no real enemy for them to fight. They are heroes, and everyone loves them. Who would attack the Heroes of the Wide? No one.
2. There is SO MUCH players can learn that they want to learn it (and they do), and thus spend a lot of time trying to contain every fire (and having fun doing so, so why stop them) but not leaving enough time for a combat encounter by the time the store closes. also, because of this, November 13th is too soon for me to stay with the book's stages and actually finish.
3. Player made characters that were warriors, not detective diplomats, they truly are starting to itch for some 'actual D&D'.
4. Everything the players do is treating symptoms, not the cause. The actual danger to Baldur's Gate is out of their reach by design.


My response has been to go off script.

I've expanded the "bhaal's chosen" to not be targeted at only certain individuals, but more like a plague, where certain people with certain predispositions will start going murder happy. They've already run across a serial killer tanner and the Master of Cobbles going on killing sprees with some fun telltale signs tying the events together (whenever a creature dies in the presence of a 'chosen', the spilled blood briefly forms runes, etc) This way, they have enemies to fight, are given more knowledge about the real danger (they investigated the runes they saw and asked around at various temples to get more info), and are involved with something a little more fantasy based.

second, they've just entered the undercellers and found it crawling with fleeing goblins. They don't know it yet, but if they back track the goblin's path, they'll find a short dungeon crawl and a cave deep beneath Baldur's gate where they can learn more about the return of Bhaal. Going this way is up to them, but if I read them right, they'll take the bait. If they take this route, I'll fast forward through the stages so that when they get back, things are closer to the boiling point, and they'll need to start fighting in earnest just to get through the streets of madden citizens, minor bhaals chosen, and the machinations of the big 3 chosen. That will be a bit more action packed I hope.