The Quest for the "One True System" Is It a Myth or Something More?

[Zhaleskra]

I once was interested in a "one system for all" approach when I saw several systems for game genres that were very much the same. Then D&D 3E came out, and I liked it until WotC tried to convince everyone that the d20 System was universal when it was painful to see some genres shoehorned into the d20 framework. So now I'm back into setting with the system. Having said that, I do like some generic systems.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Then D&D 3E came out, and I liked it until WotC tried to convince everyone that the d20 System was universal when it was painful to see some genres shoehorned into the d20 framework.

Amen. I really dislike d20 used for anything but D&D. It just feels wrong to me. I don't think it's really even a very good system, but it has it's place for nostalgia and continuity of D&D. I'd like to start a discussion at some point on the overall effect that the introduction of the d20 OGL had on the industry (not positive from a creative standpoint, IMO), but not in this short response.

 

[Dethklok]

Dethklok, here is where I first mention core mechanic and point out players wanting to stick to familiarity

OK; I guess I just didn't realize that was what you meant.

In terms of OSR have you looked at M20?

No, but let me check it out right now.

The overall point of OSR is to try to capture the rules lite aspect of the early gaming era.

Well in the context of M20, I can see why you would make this claim. Thanks for pointing it out, by the way! I can definitely relate to the mentality of gamers who say things like this on their main page:

Do you remember when the gaming table was full of pizza and soda, not rulebooks, miniatures and dungeon tiles? Do you yearn for a role-playing game that doesn't require weight training to carry all the books? Do you want to be able to hold all the rules in your head - or in your back pocket?

OSR in general is not like this. OSRIC is 379 pages, and downloading and opening it just now to check caused my laptop to grind to a halt for about ten minutes. The common thread of OSR isn't the start of that quote above, but the end:

And do you still want to use all those lovely monsters, adventures and game worlds too?

 

[dm4hire]

Part of the fun of the quest I have to admit, at least in our present time, is finding all these rare offshoots people have created. If you follow the links I listed in What's your favorite free RPG you will find quite a few gems out there. M20 was one of those finds and if you got the compendium you get a ton of genres in one or two PDFs depending on version.

I may have overstated the goal of OSR as it is more an attempt to capture the feel and not necessarily the rules. Many OSR tend to use them as a springboard. Non free versions are also out there such as Myth & Magic that revisits 2e and I have seen a Kickstarter for a revamp of a Runequest clone.

Thinking about it, one could actually say that the Quest has led to the new microcosmic world of roleplaying. Hundreds of variants are out there for the finding.

 

[Desdichado]

Which has been part of my point. If you think of how often someone talks about it you will see that they often describe elements of their favorite game system, but with modifications that meet what they don't like about it. It becomes a desire in essence for a home brewed system without them actually doing the work.

What I think it entails--certainly it does so for me--is the desire for a single system that is robust and capable enough of handling pretty much any game that they've ever like to play, with a few minor house-rules or modular variations to accomodate the differing vicissitudes of each game. In other words, I think it turns out that most gamers don't just want new bathwater all the time. I think the number of gamers who are "turned on" by new systems for their own sake is a relatively minor number of gamers, and most gamers aren't interested in new systems. They want to use the same system to play all their games.

Frankly, most gamers don't even appear to have a demand for even much variety in setting and game, much less system. Most gamers are content to just play one game of D&D after another, in my opinion. But of those who like variety, they want variety (mostly) in something other than the system. So they want to find the system that is flexible and robust enough to provide that experience, as well as at least sufficiently--if not necessarily perfectly--adaptable to their specific taste preferences in terms of how system should work as well.

 

[Zhaleskra]

Frankly, most gamers don't even appear to have a demand for even much variety in setting and game, much less system.

Show us the study.

 

[Desdichado]

Show us the study.

How about first you show me where I suggested my opinion was based on a study.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

What I think it entails--certainly it does so for me--is the desire for a single system that is robust and capable enough of handling pretty much any game that they've ever like to play, with a few minor house-rules or modular variations to accomodate the differing vicissitudes of each game. In other words, I think it turns out that most gamers don't just want new bathwater all the time. I think the number of gamers who are "turned on" by new systems for their own sake is a relatively minor number of gamers, and most gamers aren't interested in new systems. They want to use the same system to play all their games.

Frankly, most gamers don't even appear to have a demand for even much variety in setting and game, much less system. Most gamers are content to just play one game of D&D after another, in my opinion. But of those who like variety, they want variety (mostly) in something other than the system. So they want to find the system that is flexible and robust enough to provide that experience, as well as at least sufficiently--if not necessarily perfectly--adaptable to their specific taste preferences in terms of how system should work as well.

I wouldn't necessarily agree about most gamers just wanting to play one game of D&D (or other preferred system) after another, but I agree with most of the rest of what you've said.

The search for the perfect system is a major goal for many people who look into other systems. Some people do like variety for it's own sake, but even though I love trying new games, I would be much less interested in doing so if I could find (or design) about 2 or 3 that would together fulfill all of my role-playing needs. If I had those 2 or 3 systems, looking into other games would be primarily so I could steal the settings and use it with the system I loved, or for a one-off excursion not leading to a lasting campaign.

 

[Desdichado]

I wouldn't necessarily agree about most gamers just wanting to play one game of D&D (or other preferred system) after another, but I agree with most of the rest of what you've said.

In my experience, and WotC market research in the past seemed to corroborate this view, most gamers play nothing but D&D. Ever.

 

[dm4hire]

The search for the perfect system is a major goal for many people who look into other systems. Some people do like variety for it's own sake, but even though I love trying new games, I would be much less interested in doing so if I could find (or design) about 2 or 3 that would together fulfill all of my role-playing needs. If I had those 2 or 3 systems, looking into other games would be primarily so I could steal the settings and use it with the system I loved, or for a one-off excursion not leading to a lasting campaign.

I will agree with this. Though the two to three systems needs to be streamlined enough that they lend themselves more than one genre. Which given the recent trends with Fate, Gumshoe, and the few others we are starting to see that evolution. I think a lot of that is because designers are now thinking ahead with their game designs, taking in account future applications of their system.

A good example of that is Monte Cook's Cypher system which is pretty streamlined for Numenera, but with the advent of The Strange we are about to see the true capabilities of the system. In hindsight I almost wish that The Strange was released first since it is being designed to support multiple genres by treating them as "realms" in affect. Thankfully Numenera will be forward compatible with it as Monte will be releasing a conversion guide.

If progression continues then we might eventually see a shift from "One True System" to a more realistic standard of "Duality" or "Holy Trinity", meaning a focus on the two or three predominate systems which cover the most genres for that person. If you think about it that opens more commonality between players across the board. You ask someone what their favorite game system is and you will get a diverse answer. Ask them their favorite systems and you will start to see less diversity as the more popular systems tend to fall within their ranking. Which is why we talk about d20, d100, Savage Worlds, Fate, and so on, at least in the mechanics sense.