D&D 4E What can Next do to pull in 4e campaigns?

[Nemesis Destiny]

I would say that all depends on the number of 4th editions players vs the players of all the other editions put together.

It actually depends more on the number of interested players of any given edition. There are plenty of 3.5/PF, BECMI, AD&D, and other players who just don't like the direction Next is heading. So no, it's not just an "everyone else vs 4e" argument.

 

[Mistwell]

There are plenty of 3.5/PF, BECMI, AD&D, and other players who just don't like the direction Next is heading.

Are there? Playtest data and survey data seems to disagree.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Are there? Playtest data and survey data seems to disagree.

Surveys and playtests are self-selecting and do not necessarily represent the entire segment of D&D players out there.

 

[Dominar Rygel XVI]

It actually depends more on the number of interested players of any given edition. There are plenty of 3.5/PF, BECMI, AD&D, and other players who just don't like the direction Next is heading. So no, it's not just an "everyone else vs 4e" argument.

Well I will say in all confidence that all editions previous to 4th edition have a common ground because of how radically different that version of the game was.

You are right about the interest having to be there, but let's not forget that the 4th edition fans have already been given an edition to play. The older crowd hasn't had a new edition in many years and with the popularity of Pathfinder and OSR's, WoTc would be fools not to target them. There are a good few people who like to play all editions, but I would bet all my many wives that the majority of older players didn't like 4th edition and this is why Next would need to lean more towards the older systems.

 

[Dominar Rygel XVI]

Surveys and playtests are self-selecting and do not necessarily represent the entire segment of D&D players out there.

Agreed!

I downloaded the playtest but never participated in the surveys. I know a lot of people who downloaded the packets but never took interest in actually playing it.

You work with the data you have. If you run an election and only 25% of the population actually vote, the election still has a winner, even though 75% of the population couldn't be bothered.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Well I will say in all confidence that all editions previous to 4th edition have a common ground because of how radically different that version of the game was.

You are right about the interest having to be there, but let's not forget that the 4th edition fans have already been given an edition to play.

This makes no sense as an argument, because by definition, fans of any edition have an edition to play, and so far as we know, there is no known technology to make old books unusable.

The older crowd hasn't had a new edition in many years and with the popularity of Pathfinder and OSR's, WoTc would be fools not to target them. There are a good few people who like to play all editions, but I would bet all my many wives that the majority of older players didn't like 4th edition and this is why Next would need to lean more towards the older systems.

For what it's worth I am "the older crowd" and so is most of my group (all started in AD&D). I can't speak to the majority, but in my personal experience, your assertion doesn't hold. Perhaps this is why I am confused that they are doing nothing to target me with Next.

 

[Mistwell]

Surveys and playtests are self-selecting and do not necessarily represent the entire segment of D&D players out there.

As a generalization that is true (of all samples, on some level), but as to specifics I think it makes for a hasty generalization. In this case, they went after people from all editions, people who didn't like prior editions and who did, people who expressed interest in a new edition and who did not, a whole host of every selection of types of players. I think they got a very representative sample - certainly far FAR better a representative sample than message boards, or even than any prior sample of RPG players likely in the history of the game.

Bottom line - you claimed you know for a fact that "plenty" of people agree with a position that runs contrary to a sample of far more people than you personally have sampled. So, my point remains.

 

[Obryn]

There are a good few people who like to play all editions, but I would bet all my many wives that the majority of older players didn't like 4th edition and this is why Next would need to lean more towards the older systems.

I've been gaming for over 30 years and started with the Moldvay Basic book. That pretty much makes me an "older player" by any metric. (Not "oldest" but certainly "older.") So please, less stereotypes.

 

[Dominar Rygel XVI]

This makes no sense as an argument, because by definition, fans of any edition have an edition to play, and so far as we know, there is no known technology to make old books unusable.

For what it's worth I am "the older crowd" and so is most of my group (all started in AD&D). I can't speak to the majority, but in my personal experience, your assertion doesn't hold. Perhaps this is why I am confused that they are doing nothing to target me with Next.

At the end of the day, Next plays more like older editions while the 4th edition crowd have been given basically scraps. I can see elements of the game in Next but not enough for 4th edition players I know.

 

[Balesir]

Well I will say in all confidence that all editions previous to 4th edition have a common ground because of how radically different that version of the game was.

3rd Edition was pretty different from earlier editions, too - that's why I played it so much. It, too, spawned a community of older edition players. I think this point is overexaggerated somewhat.

You are right about the interest having to be there, but let's not forget that the 4th edition fans have already been given an edition to play. The older crowd hasn't had a new edition in many years and with the popularity of Pathfinder and OSR's, WoTc would be fools not to target them.

You just said it yourself - 3E players have Pathfinder, older edition players have the OSR. I think 5E will have to appeal to every group of gamers on its own merits, and I don't think this is a bad thing.

There are a good few people who like to play all editions, but I would bet all my many wives that the majority of older players didn't like 4th edition and this is why Next would need to lean more towards the older systems.

You may well be right, but my own anecdotal evidence is a group of 8 players (including me), all over 40-something, all of whom regard 4E as the best D&D rule set there has been so far. In other words, you might be right, but I don't think any real evidence points either to that or to the reverse.