What happened with Vampire?

[Umbran]

They came out with it in 2004 and gave it better rules than the oWoD (which were not a selling point given that for a decade and a half they had been telling people to ignore the rules).

Mostly better, perhaps. They gutted all that was good about the magic system of Mage, and put some pretty hefty barriers to magic use in the morality system. I found it odd that they had a system about being a wizard, but made doing so such a hazard to the character....

 

[Dethklok]

Huh. You guys definitely have a different take. Although I really don't know what caused Vampire to fizzle out, I would have traced it's rise and fall to changing trends in popular culture.

Really thinking about it, vampire films and shows boomed in the 1990s, didn't they? There may have been films and shows from the 1980s, but the only one I can think of is Lost Boys in the late 80's. The 90's had Interview with a Vampire, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Forever Knight, Buffy, and even spoofs like Dracula: Dead and Loving It. It looks like the original Vampire: The Masquerade was released in 1991 at the crest of this wave, and probably rode it until it dissipated. I'd have thought the game could have made a comeback in the 2010's when a new generation of fans were coming around and the idea seemed fresh again. But maybe the release of the Twilight movies, rather than spurring a revival, reduced vampires to glittery fodder for teen romance novels and rendered them unappealing to anyone interested in playing a serious rpg!

 

[Umbran]

Huh. You guys definitely have a different take. Although I really don't know what caused Vampire to fizzle out, I would have traced it's rise and fall to changing trends in popular culture.

Urban fantasy and paranormal romance have been going strong and growing since the 1990s. Kelly Armstrong, Charlaine Harris, Jim Butcher - they've been selling like hotcakes all through the period.

Really thinking about it, vampire films and shows boomed in the 1990s, didn't they?

SyFy has just come out with "Bitten" (Werewolf focused, at least to start with), based on Armstrong's work. "True Blood" is based on Harris', and was one of the hottest HBO shows for years. The Underworld movies have been out there as well, and only span the last decade. I could go on. So, I don't think "fizzeled out" is an appropriate descriptor.

 

[Dungeoneer]

Urban fantasy and paranormal romance have been going strong and growing since the 1990s. Kelly Armstrong, Charlaine Harris, Jim Butcher - they've been selling like hotcakes all through the period.



SyFy has just come out with "Bitten" (Werewolf focused, at least to start with), based on Armstrong's work. "True Blood" is based on Harris', and was one of the hottest HBO shows for years. The Underworld movies have been out there as well, and only span the last decade. I could go on. So, I don't think "fizzeled out" is an appropriate descriptor.

And you've avoided mentioning the sparkling elephant in the room entirely!

Vampires are big, big business. I would say that popular interest in them dwarfs what there was in the 90's. Vampires have gone mainstream, man.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

That said, I do think that the switch to the nWoD was indeed a big part of the reason for White Wolf's decline - it was a really bold move for them to wipe out the entirety of their existing settings and start over, and the mechanics are a distinct improvement, but the nWoD just never had the same magic to it that the old settings did. I suspect a lot of the interest in oWoD was tied up in their metaplot, so when they decided to get rid of that they just never quite recovered.

I mark the switch to nWoD as the beginning of the end for White Wolf. I'm not clear on why they thought they needed to scrap everything and start over, but it was a very bad move. I was never into the metaplot, but I wasn't willing to start re-buying the books, particularly since they weren't as dark and adult in feel as the old ones.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

They gutted all that was good about the magic system of Mage

Exactly. Of all the changes in nWoD, that was the worst, by far.

 

[gamerprinter]

The only thing I know is that when Vampire was doing great, Lisa Stevens was in charge of that division. Then she went to WotC when 3x was king, now she's the CEO (owner) of Pathfinder RPG. I'm not suggesting Lisa being in charge as the only reason for a game's success, but the previous sentence is also true.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Was it still oWoD when she left, or nWoD?

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I haven't been very impressed with Onxy Path so far. I don't care about 20th anniversary editions, reprints of old books, and retooling of old traditions books. I want brand new oWoD material, and it needs to have a POD option for each book (I won't buy PDFs). That's the only thing that will induce me to buy anything from them.

 

[KirayaTiDrekan]

Lisa Stevens was with White Wolf when Vampire debuted back in '91. She moved over to Wizards of the Coast just before Magic: The Gathering came out in '93.

She was with WotC through the acquisition of TSR and the debut of 3rd Edition. In 2002 she formed Paizo to take over the publishing of Dragon and Dungeon Magazines.