D&D 5E 30 speed for all! Halflings, Gnomes, Dwarves were feeling left behind?

[The Human Target]

You didn't show your (or anyone else's) prior posts where you mentioned that what D&D Next was really missing was 30 speed for everyone, and that you'd buy D&D Next if only they'd make all races have the exact same speed.

Until you do, or anyone else does, I have proved my point.

I want to come live in your dimension.

Its super easy to prove points.

 

[Ichneumon]

For the record, Usain Bolt's movement rate is about 95.

However, he only has proficiency in the baton.

 

[delericho]

I'm not a fan of all races using the same movement rate. I thought the different rates were a good place for one of those "nods to realism" that we see occasionally - a fairly peripheral matter that doesn't matter too much, but that does indeed 'feel' right.

That said, having a fixed base movement for characters at all, never mind for all members of a species, is actually pretty absurd - my 87-year-old grandfather most certainly does not have a base movement of 30, and as noted professional athletes can run much faster than I can.

So... I would rather they didn't make this change. But I can live with it.

(Also, I didn't vote in the poll, because I don't agree with any of the options. If the "classical speed" is 25, rather than 20, then it's really not enough difference to be worth bothering with.)

 

[Sage Genesis]

In which edition? The oldest ones I have access to are 1e and Moldvay Basic. Both of them, when describing player character movement, make no distinction between races.

...Though, in the monster listings, dwarves have 6 movement, halflings have 9, and humans have 12. Goblins and Kobolds both had only 6. Weird. In the 2e Monstrous Manual, halfling speed is listed as "6 (9)." I have no idea what that means.

Already kind of answered your own question there. I don't have every book of every edition at the ready, but at least in AD&D you ought to be able to find out more in the Movement sections of the PHB. In the first printing of the AD&D 2e PHB (the blue one) for example, you can find movement rates on page 119.

Movement rates are listed as tens of yards in a normal scenario and tens of feet in combat or otherwise being cautious (in both cases per round/minute). So humans can do 120 yards per minute, but dwarves can only do 60 yards per minute.

 

[1of3]

Doesn't matter either way.

What I want is a STR roll on run action to determine distance, such that you can actually have a race per the rules.

 

[Sadras]

I prefer the difference in racial speeds, I want racial penalties/maximums...all of that which makes races distinct with a little 'nod to realism' as Delericho mentioned. Selecting ones race should be quite an important decision, I guess many of us disagree with the amount of differences that should exist.

There was a comment made by Morrus a while back where he wanted the differences between races to be large not piddly +1 or -1, but that orcs could have something like a +4 in strength. I guess that resonates with what I desire for races: In that selecting ones race should matter.

But then again I do also do not mind if some races are more predisposed to being better wizards, fighters or whatever than others (at least initially). I know this could bring min/maxing back, which is quite the problem across the board but that is where the penalties of the races and the other balancing factors of the races kick in.
If an Orc is going to receive a +4 to strength, chances are he is going to be penalised elsewhere for such a huge bonus and PCs can and should exploit that other weakness to defeat him. Maybe I'm just too much of a vanilla fan

If they do alter it, I hope they include the modular option for keeping it at 25 ft. with all the other "nods to realism" not that my group can't just house-rule it, but its nice for it to be there staring at us in print.

 

[pemerton]

no one has ever complained about their 25 speed, during the entire playtest.

And suddenly it's important to make this change.

It's obvious this wasn't on ANYONE's radar as a bug needing to be fixed.

That's not obvious to me at all. It was clearly on Mearls' et als radar as a bug needing fixing, otherwise they wouldn't have fixed it!

All things being equal -- body mass, flexibility, proportionality and stride rate -- then taller people can run faster than shorter people.

Why would we assume that all those things are equal across the various non-human races?

Anyway, I'm one of those who started with Moldvay Basic, which doesn't distinguish between the speeds of PC races, then moved to AD&D where I'm pretty sure the PHB doesn't draw the distinction either. I think it may have been the Wilderness Survival Guide that led me to first assign different PC races different speeds.

Ideally each size should have a base speed which is then modified by strength and constitution.

You may not be aware, but there are RPGs that do this: Rolemaster is one (and I think at the moment you can still download their beta playtest revision for free). From memory, HARP is another. Runequest also has a Size stat which I would guess might factor into movement rate (it certainly factors into reach and durability).

Given that D&D seems to obviously inadequate for your simulationist preferences, it puzzles me that you don't check out some of these other excellent games.

try reading the Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings if you knew they could easily keep pace with Orcs, you'll find all dramatic tension GONE

If you want dramatic tension in chase scenes that also fits with the D&D tradition then you might look at the wilderness evasion rules from classic D&D as a starting point. Or 4e's skill challenge rules.

Rolling dice to test speed and endurance is generally a better way to create dramatic tension than simply comparing two fixed numbers and working out which one is larger!

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

As a matter of verisimilitude, this discussion is stupid. My dog has 10% of my size and I simply cannot cover the same distance as him in the same amount of time. As Yoda would say, size matters not. Agility? Sure. Physiology? Probably. We're talking about fantasy races here, they're as quick as the designers want to describe them to be, and there's already a precedent for "as fast as humans" small races in OD&D. Also, if anything else fails, this is the kind of thing where applying a house rule is so easy that their change has no power at all to hurt your game. Next is the "play the way you want" edition, just do that.

Cheers!

 

[billd91]

D&D is an abstract game, entirely lacking in verisimilitude. Shall we argue about the lack of realism in chess next?

That's definitely not true. Tabletop RPGs depend on a certain amount of verisimilitude because they're open to so many options. Without verisimilitude, how does a GM make a player-predictable ruling when the game steps outside the written rules?

That said, verisimilitude could easily conclude that smaller races should be generally slower. However, it's also clear that the speeds of medium races isn't pushing the limits of human ability. So it's easy to say that the smaller races just push themselves a little bit more to keep up and are able to do so because of their surprising hardiness. And they would have to be surprisingly hardy for their sizes to be adventurous and pulling their weight alongside humans, elves, and orcs. Personally, I'd consider giving them a slightly slower top run speed if anything.

Ultimately, verisimilitude can come up with multiple, conflicting answers depending on how you rationalize how the game rule models reality or realistic expectations. And that's OK. There's not that much difference between a movement rate of 20, 25, and 30. Fuzziness in what verisimilitude produces is OK.

And for anybody wondering why goblins move at medium speed while other small races move slower in 3e and PF - my gut suspicion is it's a Tolkien nod reflecting the surprising speed of the Misty Mountain goblins.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Is it just me or is D&D Next with its 30 speed demihumans going in the wrong direction?

Even fourth edition recognized there was an important difference between five squares of movement during combat, and six.

What is going on? I'm curious if I'm the only one who thinks upping their speed to 30 is an insult to the history of the game, it's comedic picturing how fast a 3 foot gnome's legs must move to keep up to a five or six foot tall human.

Time to get a poll going, because Wizards of the Coast apparently doesn't think consulting the playerbase is important anymore, before they ram through such sweeping changes on a whim without being vetted by the community.

As you can tell by my Avatar, I'm a HUGE fan of Dwarves, but it's not their speed that makes them appealing to me, it's what they can do when they get close up to you that matters most. Normalizing speeds to me takes flavor away, and tries to solve a "problem" which no one, to my knowledge, has ever complained about.

Wizards, why are you tampering with such an important core stat in the game, common to every edition (AFAIK), without even posting a single survey to validate how people feel about it?

Its destroying another small part of verisimilitude for no good reason.

I will be happy with consistency. If shorter races have the same move, no biggie, just don't pull a 3E and make PC races move slower but goblins and kobolds moving at human speed. Next can assign whatever movement rates it wants just please be consistent and don't short p) change certain small races for no reason.