Rules heavy = bad; light = good

[Sword of Spirit]

Second place is probably Fiasco. Which depending on definitions might not qualify as an RPG. Or it might. Tabletop gave it the chance to break out.

I would be interesting in seeing if we can get RPGs to a larger audience by producing more "gateway RPGs" like that, and getting them into mainstream party gaming.

Don't tell them they've just played a "role-playing game" until after they are hooked...

But there's a huge issue here - it's very hard to make an industry out of rules light RPGs. Supplements are much harder to write and people who want them don't think they need more. So the industry is always going to lean to heavier rules than the players want.

Good observation. High quality settings might be the key. GURPS setting supplements apparently used to sell really well outside of GURPS itself, since they were known to be of such high quality and were mostly fluff. If game products made for an entirely different system can sell for their fluff, basing a mostly fluff book for a rules-light system, and making it very high quality, should be able to sell well to those who like the system (and maybe spread beyond it).

 

[TerraDave]

...
Depending on definitions, I'd say that there are three games I'd consider bigger than Burning Wheel and that might qualify as Indy RPGs.

First place is Fate. Evil Hat might well no longer qualify as Indy - but Fate's definitely bigger than Burning Wheel.

Second place is probably Fiasco. Which depending on definitions might not qualify as an RPG. Or it might. Tabletop gave it the chance to break out.

Third place is Dungeon World. New but pretty popular and only growing in strength, having already eclipsed its parent game.

Burning Wheel is next after those.

Lets go to the evidence from ENWorlds own hot game tracker

1 Pathfinder RPG 17.83%
2 D&D 3rd Edition / 3.5 10.7%
3 D&D Next (5E) 10.7%
4 FATE 7.01%
5 D&D 4th Edition 6.37%
6 World of Darkness 4.46%
7 Old School Revival (OSR)* 3.44%
8 13th Age 3.12%
9 Shadowrun 2.42%
10 OD&D 2.1%
11 Savage Worlds 2.04%
12 Numenera 1.91%
13 Mutants & Masterminds / DC Adventures 1.91%
14 Warhammer 40K 1.72%
15 Star Wars (SAGA/d20) 1.53%
16 Exalted 1.4%
17 Call of Cthulhu 1.4%
18 Dungeon World 1.34%
19 GURPS 1.27%
20 Traveller 1.27%
21 AD&D 2nd Edition 1.21%
22 CORTEX System* 1.02%
23 AD&D 1st Edition 0.89%
24 Dungeon Crawl Classics 0.76%
25 Star Trek* 0.7%

The top is real heavy, but then Fate is pretty high at 4. One rules light game. OSR at 7 could be, but it depends. OD&D at 10 and Numenara at 12. CoC at 17, DW at 18, Cortex (borderline) at 22. So like 6.5 out of 25.

Doesn't really seem like a massive wave.

 

[Dungeoneer]

I haven't played FATE/Dungeon World etc. I get the impression though that they don't try to 'simulate' the whole world in the way D&D does. Is this true?

 

[TerraDave]

No. They don't. They give you very flexible mechanics to deal with whatever. There "light".

 

[technoextreme]

Lets go to the evidence from ENWorlds own hot game tracker

You mean the tracker that for the longest of times couldn't actually count to the number 10????

 

[TerraDave]

I doubt it could "count" at all.

 

[technoextreme]

I doubt it could "count" at all.

Its a joke regarding the fact that at one point when they first released it whoever wrote it created a top ten list with twelve entries.

 

[TerraDave]

Ahh. Morrus can't count to 10.

Could be.

 

[haakon1]

For what it's worth, my players seem to like rules heavy games (3.5) played in a quick, rules light kind of way (no pausing to look up rules, and no game mat unless necessary).

Which may be what Next is going for, sort of.

 

[Ahnehnois]

For what it's worth, my players seem to like rules heavy games (3.5) played in a quick, rules light kind of way (no pausing to look up rules, and no game mat unless necessary).

That sounds nice.