D&D 5E Warlock's Revealed in Livestream

[Falling Icicle]

Hm. So the "higher level of potency" thing may mean that the Warlock will only know lower level spells, but have access to higher level spell slots than a Wizard of the same level.

I think what he means by "higher potency" is that the spell slots migrate to higher levels, so the spells that have greater effect when cast in higher level slots (like fireball), improve because the warlock replaces lower level slots with higher level ones.

 

[Falling Icicle]

While I have no problem with warlocks being based on pacts, I would like to have the option to play a warlock whose ancestor made the pact, or who was marked by some supernatural force without his consent, cursed by a fey while in the crib, etc. I also think it's very important that warlocks, no matter what the nature of their pact, are not beholden to their patrons once the pact has been forged. If I wanted to be the devoted servant of some higher power, I'd play a cleric or paladin. Warlocks, IMO, should be those who make dangerous bargains with strange otherworldly beings, scholars who seek out terrible and forbidden secrets that would drive lesser minds mad, and cunning arcanists who pry into the cracks in the universe that the gods had thought they had safely sealed away.

Warlocks should rightly be feared, and should be able to turn against the very beings that were foolish enough to curse them with their power. They shouldn't be portrayed as gullible fools who were too incompetent to be a "real" wizard so they sold their soul away for whatever scraps of power they can beg out of some greater being. Why would anyone want to play that? I want to play a warlock that other people fear and respect because he's powerful and cunning enough to delve into dark secrets that most people don't dare touch, not someone deserving of pity because he was so pathetic that they only way he could get power was to go begging for it.

A wizard should talk about his warlock friend like this: "That guy? He's a warlock. In my pursuit of knowledge, I myself have often felt the temptation to go to the dark side, to delve into those secrets and to commune with those beings that the gods tried to keep locked away - and for good reason. Many who gain such insights go mad. But a true warlock is one who is strong enough of mind and soul to not only unlock such forbidden insights, but to master them. He is cunning enough to bargain with arch devils and arch fey and come out ahead. He is willing to do almost anything for power, no matter the perils. It is fair to say that I regard him with wary respect, and even a healthy dose of fear."

Not: "Oh that guy? He's a warlock. LOL. He didn't have what it took to be a real magician, so he sold the only thing he had that was of any value - his soul. What a noob."

 

[bogmad]

A wizard should talk about his warlock friend like this: "That guy? He's a warlock. In my pursuit of knowledge, I myself have often felt the temptation to go to the dark side, to delve into those secrets and to commune with those beings that the gods tried to keep locked away - and for good reason. Many who gain such insights go mad. But a true warlock is one who is strong enough of mind and soul to not only unlock such forbidden insights, but to master them. He is cunning enough to bargain with arch devils and arch fey and come out ahead. He is willing to do almost anything for power, no matter the perils. It is fair to say that I regard him with wary respect, and even a healthy dose of fear."

Not: "Oh that guy? He's a warlock. LOL. He didn't have what it took to be a real magician, so he sold the only thing he had that was of any value - his soul. What a noob."

I'd like to have wizards who view warlocks with either perspective. Not necessarily "LOL, what a noob!" but "that guy has taken the cheap, dangerous path to power because he doesn't have the mind or the discipline to do what i do."

In my homebrew I don't think I'd have wizards typically having much respect for warlocks, but you're of course welcome to have it whatever way you'd want.

[added] I mean, arrogance is a common trait among many of those who would deign to toy with the supernatural underpinnings of the universe, regardless of what arcane class they belong to.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I'd like to have wizards who view warlocks with either perspective. Not necessarily "LOL, what a noob!" but "that guy has taken the cheap, dangerous path to power because he doesn't have the mind or the discipline to do what i do."

In my homebrew I don't think I'd have wizards typically having much respect for warlocks, but you're of course welcome to have it whatever way you'd want.

[added] I mean, arrogance is a common trait among many of those who would deign to toy with the supernatural underpinnings of the universe, regardless of what arcane class they belong to.

Sure, wizards might look down on warlocks or view them with suspicion or distaste. But it should be kind of like the way a jedi sees the sith. They may totally disagree with their methods, but they still acknowledge that their power is very real. Not, "haha what a chump."

 

[bogmad]

Sure, wizards might look down on warlocks or view them with suspicion or distaste. But it should be kind of like the way a jedi sees the sith. They may totally disagree with their methods, but they still acknowledge that their power is very real. Not, "haha what a chump."

I think the key to that is to simply design the warlock where it's not mechanically sub-par in comparison to the wizard. As far as "haha, what a chump," I'd say sure, let a few wizards have that position, but as the default probably not, and probably not once they face warlock of equivalent level.

Not that you're saying they should be necessarily, but I don't think warlocks should the flip side of wizard like Sith is to Jedi. That's more like a paladin and anti-paladin.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I think the key to that is to simply design the warlock where it's not mechanically sub-par in comparison to the wizard. As far as "haha, what a chump," I'd say sure, let a few wizards have that position, but as the default probably not, and probably not once they face warlock of equivalent level.

Right, I'm just talking about the way they portray warlocks in general. They could make them seem awesome, or they could make them seem like pitiful fools. What any individual happens to think about them is, of course, entirely up to them.

Not that you're saying they should be necessarily, but I don't think warlocks should the flip side of wizard like Sith is to Jedi. That's more like a paladin and anti-paladin.

Yeah, probably not the best example.

 

[Klaus]

While I have no problem with warlocks being based on pacts, I would like to have the option to play a warlock whose ancestor made the pact, or who was marked by some supernatural force without his consent, cursed by a fey while in the crib, etc.

That is a perfectly viable backstory for any warlock, whether 3e, 4e or (I presume) DDN. When you chosee a pact, "you" here might mean "the player", but in-game it's actually a centuries-old pact being enforced against the character's wishes. This could be specially true for good-aligned infernal warlocks.

 

[Greg K]

Could be interesting, but I dislike that they all fight as clerics and rogues.

 

[Mistwell]

While I have no problem with warlocks being based on pacts, I would like to have the option to play a warlock whose ancestor made the pact, or who was marked by some supernatural force without his consent, cursed by a fey while in the crib, etc.

I like that. Very cool, Falling Icicle. I think I'd enjoy playing that character.

I also think it's very important that warlocks, no matter what the nature of their pact, are not beholden to their patrons once the pact has been forged. If I wanted to be the devoted servant of some higher power, I'd play a cleric or paladin.

I agree. I can see a Warlock having a tense, or even adversarial, relationship with their patron. Sort of they're stuck with each other, but they don't have to like it.

I also found it interesting that Mearls seemed to be playing sort of a "pact with a concept" type Warlock, instead of a specific entity.

 

[Klaus]

Could be interesting, but I dislike that they all fight as clerics and rogues.

How so?