What's a resonable price-point for entry into the RPG hobby?

[Janx]

That's my point. I think that nearly all new gamers are created this way.



I wonder how common that is. I would wager it's rare. I'd guess that the barrier to entry for a brand new gamer - the "entry level" one everyone's talking about - isn't cost. It's getting them interested in the first place.

I think it depends. My friends and I read comics in the 80's and saw the ads for 2e D&D.

So I saved up money and mail-ordered it (back when that was a thing, where you waited 6-8 weeks for the product to arrive).

My outlay was about $45 for DMG, PH and dice.

And we all played with that for the first sessions, until other players bought their own PH.

We were definitely a self-starting group (rather than joining an initial group). But since I made the initial investment, in theory, the other players were Zero Cost players as they tried out the game.


I think price matters and doesn't matter.

For a potential player like myself, who is considering an activity as the initiator (meaning the guy who buys what's needed so I can recruit friends to do it with me), the price tag is very important. I was willing for fork over $50 in 80's cash as a high school student. More than that would have made me balk.

For try-it-first recruits, price only comes into play if they look farther ahead of thinking what it costs if they like it. And for most games, dice + cost of player's handbook. So $25-35, which is probably reasonable, compared to buying an new console game for $60 so you can play it with your friends online.

 

[darjr]

Yes, but then it's not an entry price. The entry system is - generally, but not always - handled by 'gatekeepers'; by people, not by products. The product comes later if the initial wooing succeeds.

There are exceptions, but that's a very common entry scenario. Curious person invited to a game, borrows books for a while, and if they stuck around probably ends up buying them. Rarely do brand-new folks buy the books and then start looking around for a game.

I think this is right, and good. Though I hope that a new 5e 'starter set' could change the balance, I think more folks could be playing if there was a product that could be that gateway, vs having to find an existing game or a mentor. I think that 5e could be the game that does that, it looks like a good 'basic' could be boiled out of it that might just do the trick. At least to me.

 

[darjr]

I have to add that my group was self starting. I did see others play it at school but for some reason I never made it into their games. Not got a good look at what exactly they were doing, which fed the mystery for me really.

Then I was gifted the Moldvay box.

 

[Umbran]

Get off your high horse, Umbran.

Seeing how much, "that's not *really* D&D," nonsense we've seen in the past, I think my point is justified. We spend way too much effort trying to find reasons someone is not really in our hobby, and then complaining that it isn't growing! Buying a book is not a litmus test for being engaged and participating. Being engaged and participating is a test for being engaged and participating.

I submit that buying a book will generally happen *after* the gamer is hooked, not before.

There's engagement at the table, but there's also engagement and preparation away from the table.

I find the stuff away-from-table to be overrated. Folks worried about optimization need to do homework, sure. But that's only one type of player. Others can do just fine without having to engage in prep away from the table.

 

[Crothian]

My current group of five people has been together for almost a decade and two of them have yet to buy anything but dice. There is rarely little need for everyone to own a copy of the book. With the net it is easy to find rules information for free for the game we play thanks to things like the OGL. As long as they are there almost every week then it works great for us.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I think it's a reasonable question to ask if that player, who hasn't invested in his own copy of the rules, is really an equal participant in the hobby. Does someone who never invests in any game book going to be a long-term participant? I've seen quite a few people introduced to the game, but I also usually don't see them continue long term without investing in it themselves.

I also think it's worth looking at who is investing in the game on their behalf if they're not investing themselves.

I DM-ed 3e and 3.5 for several years without buying a single book. In other words, I think your theory that buying books is a requisite for being an equal participant in the hobby unlikely to hold water.

I didn't buy any books because I had access to the books I wanted, since a friend of mine basically bought anything published and freely lent me the books.

Two of the players in my gaming group has never bought a book, but they have stayed interested for the last 8 years.

My theory is that the amount of time you spend on the game tells you how "equal" participants in the hobby they are.

Anyway, regarding the thread, I think that 20-40$ is a reasonable entry for a player and around 60-100$ a reasonable entry for a game master. Anything more expensive than that for something equal to the PHB/DMG/MM might make people back off. There is a reason you could get the PHB/DMG/MM in a boxed set for 67$.

 

[Janx]

Sounds about right. How many players deal with leveling up, right after the game (before everybody leaves)? Because they are borrowing books, etc. Or before the session starts.

Sure, some people spend time prepping a PC between games, but I bet they are a minority based on my experience.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I'm on board with saying the right price point for entry into the hobby is zero. Free to play works well enough for MMOs, and as [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] notes very often the hobby is passed from entrenched hobbyists to newcomers who don't need to (and may or may not ever) buy anything.

To me, that's one of the great things about this hobby: that it doesn't inherently cost anything. It's just people around a table talking. Heck, you don't even need the table.

 

[delericho]

That's my point. I think that nearly all new gamers are created this way.

I wonder how common that is. I would wager it's rare. I'd guess that the barrier to entry for a brand new gamer - the "entry level" one everyone's talking about - isn't cost. It's getting them interested in the first place.

Indeed. I think perhaps the place for the Beginner Box (or whatever it's called) is probably not for people who have never played before, but rather for people who've already had a taster (at a convention, at a demo game, from an uncle, whatever) but who, for whatever reason, can't just be slotted into a regular game (again, because it was a convention or demo, or because the uncle's regular group is too adult to easily accomodate a 10-y-o nephew).

So they need something that will take them from a position of knowing a little bit, and enable them to explain (and potentially run) the game for their friends and thus form their own group.

Or something like that.

 

[Janx]

Indeed. I think perhaps the place for the Beginner Box (or whatever it's called) is probably not for people who have never played before, but rather for people who've already had a taster (at a convention, at a demo game, from an uncle, whatever) but who, for whatever reason, can't just be slotted into a regular game (again, because it was a convention or demo, or because the uncle's regular group is too adult to easily accomodate a 10-y-o nephew).

So they need something that will take them from a position of knowing a little bit, and enable them to explain (and potentially run) the game for their friends and thus form their own group.

Or something like that.

That's always the misconception about hobbies. Aunt's buy the beginner box for their nephew.

a self-starter buys the full deal for himself, because he projects that he's going to out-pace any beginner material quickly and doesn't want to be saddled with product he's going to replace with the upgrade.

It's true in every hobby.

I'd rather buy my own guitar and amp separately, than have somebody give me a $100 starter guitar and practice amp.

I'm sure there's SOMEBODY who would buy the beginner box. But there's just as many who would rather dive into the grown-up version.