D&D 5E Can mundane classes have a resource which powers abilities?

[The Crimson Binome]

Burning Hands is a lousy spell, though. It's less damage than a single longsword attack from a competent fighter, and the save is trivial. Preparing a spell of it would be a waste of time and money. Evocation doesn't really pick up steam until character level 5, both because of Fireball finally having decent range, and five dice finally dealing reasonable damage. Of note, evocation is already better off in 5E, due to increased base spell damage and weaker monsters, but scrolls are harder to come by.

For reference, though: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm
"The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires one day per 1,000 gp in the item’s base price, with a minimum of at least one day. Potions are an exception to this rule; they always take just one day to brew. The character must spend the gold and XP at the beginning of the construction process."

 

[Dausuul]

You know, I think it's shortsighted to focus on "resources" for the fighter. D&D already focuses too much on resources as the limiting factor for abilities: Got an ability that's too powerful to allow use at will? Make it dependent on a limited resource which must be replenished. Too often, the designers seem to reach for that without even thinking about other possible limiting factors.

Here are just some of the ways you can limit ability usage:

Briar Patch: You can only use the ability when an event occurs over which you have no direct control (e.g., an enemy takes a specified action).
Assembly Required: You can only use the ability when an event occurs, but the event is one which you can cause to happen (e.g., a creature dies).
Feeling Lucky: The ability does not always work, and there is an opportunity cost when it doesn't, maybe just the waste of your action for the round.
Way of Pain: Use of the ability incurs some kind of penalty.
Please Wait: The ability takes a significant amount of time to use, such that it can be interrupted.
[X] in the Gas Tank: You have only a certain amount of gas in your tank. Once you burn it all, you have to refill somehow before you can use the ability again. Refilling is limited by some other factor, which is [X]. For example, if refilling your tank requires an event over which you have no direct control, it's Briar Patch in the Gas Tank.

D&D relies overwhelmingly on Feeling Lucky (attacks, skill checks) and the Gas Tank (spells, per-day abilities, stuff that costs money) as its limiting factors. I'd like to see the others get a lot more play.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

I never said Burning Hands was a particularly good spell, just as a back-up in case you fight undead or something, and I've already said before using a spell slot to prepare a spell like it or Fireball is just a waste since they're better spent on spells that simply remove the enemy from the fight(though thinking it over, preparing them is useful if you're facing undead or something and you don't have a Cleric. Against anything else is a waste). Heck, I would'nt even recommend higher level Wizards preparing Evocation spells against golems since it's trivially easy for a Wizard to faceroll over them.

And thanks, that does clear things up though. It's still trivial to make some scrolls when you have some downtime though, but that helps a bit.

 

[JamesonCourage]

It's adding a resource so he can do better stuff than tripping people, I'd say. Blinding, stunning, dazing. Heck, add terrifying and beheading to that list, if you will.

I agree with this. In my RPG, everyone gets a certain amount of TP (technique points) to spend each round based on their base attack. So, somebody like a pure sage and many mages will have about 0-1 per round, while a high level warrior might have 7+ (up to around 13+/round if they're max level and really focused on it).

Things you can do with TP include:

• Knocking enemies back in addition to damaging them
• Change out virtual feats on the fly to adjust to new situations (temporary combat feats)
• Cause an opponent to bleed in addition to damaging them (losing HP over time)
• Block incoming attacks with a shield (subtracting damage from an attack)
• Negate certain maneuvers that take TP to use
• Regain temporary hit points (a resource that most people have, especially warriors)
• Gain a bonus to your next attack against an opponent when you miss that opponent
• Make called shots with less of a penalty
• Add extra damage to your attack
• Reactively move when attacked, potentially negating the attack
• Gain a bonus on combat maneuvers (trip, grapple, etc.)
• Cause an enemy to move where you want them to when you attack them in addition to damaging them
• Gain a second attack
• Ground flying creatures in addition to damaging them
• Deafen or blind creatures in addition to damaging them
• Knock enemies down in addition to damaging them
• Cause an enemy to become dying or dead
• Gain bonuses on certain Martial Prowess checks, certain Tactics checks, or Heal checks involving wounds involving weapons, and can always take a 10
• Paralyze enemies in addition to damaging them
• When a creature moves away from you, you can follow them reactively
• Negate flanking bonuses for opponents
• Make many attacks with a ranged or melee attack against multiple opponents
• Make extra 5 ft. steps (or shifts), letting you move around the battlefield easier than lesser skilled warriors
• Cause enemies to become shaken or nauseated in addition to damaging them
• Entangle enemies in addition to damaging them
• Stagger, daze, or stun enemies in addition to damaging them
• Fatigue or exhaust enemies in addition to damaging them
• Cause an enemy to be flat-footed in addition to damaging them
• Deal Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, or Intelligence damage to an enemy in addition to damaging them

This isn't factoring in:

• Weapon choice (melee or ranged, each weapon has unique traits, some are better against armor than others, etc.)
• Armor choice (each armor has unique traits, trading damage reduction for increased speed and less check penalty, etc.)
• Feats (bodyguard feats? reach weapon feats? damage feats? combat maneuver specialization? etc.)
• Martial stance perks and maneuvers (Overpowering Stance? Cunning Stance? Analytical Stance? Lightning Strikes Stance? etc.)
• HP to THP distribution (since everyone can spend THP on boosting certain things)
• Etc.

It's weird how a cleric can point and something dies, ignoring hit points, whereas a Fighter needs to chew through HP before sticking their sword through a harpy's heart or beheading an ogre.

Yeah, I agree. My solutions might be more complicated than what you want, but I don't mind having high level warriors attempt a Killing Strike every round (even though it's hard for mages to do the same). They should have awesome damage, amazing on-the-field abilities, and be hard to kill. I set out to make sure this was the case in my RPG by giving warriors a lot of options (technique points, stances, maneuvers, weapon and armor choices, feats, HP/THP, etc.).

Sure, you could just make a pretty straightforward beatstick (Overpowering stance, damage feats, all TP into Damaging Strike each round, etc.), but if you want a lot of options during a skirmish, you've got the tools at your disposal. You've also got skills, too, which will help outside of (and inside of) combat a ton (my skills chapter is longer than my magic chapter), and since everyone gets the same base number of skills, you aren't gimped there, either (though generalist mages will have a bigger bag of tricks, they won't be nearly as specialized at killing as the warrior is).

Anyway... just chiming in to say I agree. Let warriors be awesome, and do more than HP damage.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=58197]Dausuul[/MENTION] Agreed! I think the use of triggers and conditions makes for a far more interesting play style for fighters, rogues, and their ilk.
[MENTION=6668292]JamesonCourage[/MENTION] Sounds like a fun system, buti have a question about logistics: you list over 20 uses for technique points on the fly...how do players keep track of all that?

 

[Arduin's]

Burning Hands is a lousy spell, though. It's less damage than a single longsword attack from a competent fighter,

But, you can attack two opponents at the same time. It is a defense for a wizard. Not really an offensive option. Range of 5' means a 1st level MU is desperate...

 

[JamesonCourage]

@JamesonCourage Sounds like a fun system, buti have a question about logistics: you list over 20 uses for technique points on the fly...how do players keep track of all that?

It's two pages in the combat section. They basically learn the ones important to their character concepts (shield users might know Block inside and out), and only reference the rules when they really need to do something specific ("I wish I could blind him," "I need to push him over the edge, but I still want to damage him," etc.).

It's basically just like any other maneuver you want to do (disarm, bull rush, whatever). Combat maneuvers all follow the same basic structure (Str + Dex + ½ Base Attack or Defense Bonus + miscellaneous [very limited sources here]), as do almost all the TP maneuvers that deal condition + damage (save vs. 10 + Int mod + ½ BA).

For some players, I can see how this would slow things down (though a some of it is pretty conditional, like falling), but that's true for having powers, lots of spell options, etc. As a rules guy, I like having concrete ways to do things around, and so do my players. (My brother did once lament that when he wanted to play something simple, he preferred a warrior, but that was pretty easily fixed with a damage focus, as I said in my last post.)

I wouldn't expect it to work for people that like light rules, but having 14 pages of general martial maneuvers, different stances (with their own maneuvers), various combat maneuvers, grappling maneuvers, pressure point attacks, mounted maneuvers, etc. is something I quite enjoy. It lets me delve deep for the stuff I want, and still works for what people don't want. (Also, 14 pages might sound like too much, but again, a lot of it is conditional -grappling, riding a mount, entering a specific stance, needing to trip someone, etc.)

So, yeah. How do they keep track of it on the fly? Some do, some don't. It's like a spell list or a list of powers, or anything else. Most of the time, players know the basics ("I know I can trip" or "I know I can knock flying creatures out of the air"), but only really learn the staples to their characters ("Full Attack lets me get a second attack in" or "Overpowering Stance gives me a bonus to damage and improves my damage die"). Probably just like a spell list or a list of powers.

 

[MichaelSomething]

And your solution to this supposed problem is what exactly? Adding in a nonmagical resource so that said fighter runs out of trips? Going from no resource tracking to resource tracking makes the character worse.

The long answer would take 5,000 words so I'm just gonna give you a short answer...

Go read Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG....

 

[Obryn]

So, funny story - today I played in a Pathfinder game, using a Goblin Cavalryman.

I was desperate for more cool things to do than Charge. Don't get me wrong, I was A++ at charging. But if I wasn't charging, well... the system was kind of empty for me. There wasn't much in the way of cool stuff I could be doing. My feats and abilities mostly boiled down to, "+1 bonus to this narrow circumstance" or "ignore a penalty you shouldn't have needed to worry about anyway."

What I'm saying is, I was kind of desperate for a resource system where I could hopefully do more stuff than charge.

 

[Ahnehnois]

What I'm saying is, I was kind of desperate for a resource system where I could hopefully do more stuff than charge.

Which again conflates two unrelated ideas. Wouldn't you rather be able to do more stuff than charge and not have a resource system? You know, just say what you're going to do and do it.