D&D 5E Can mundane classes have a resource which powers abilities?

[Obryn]

Because someone vaguely remembered reading fiction by this guy Jack Vance and was trying to broaden the number of influences used in D&D. It's fundamentally a sim element, not in the sense that magic is real but in the sense that it's trying to create a genre-specific experience in the world that is paralleled by the mechanics.

It's a tangential part of balance at best. Again, resources only matter if you run out of them, and even if that happens, the spread of outcomes it creates is pretty unappealing. A typical D&D spellcaster is not going to run out of useful spells before he gets the chance to rest and recover them.

It's much more important to think in terms of odds of success, opportunity cost, risk, and other in-world tactical considerations.

You have got to be kidding me.

D&D is an intentionally balanced game, and even if you're going to try and assert it's a Vance simulation (it's not), its role as a balancing factor is undeniable.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Typically the times I hear Fighters excelling over spellcasters at games is when the Fighter is MinMax McGee and the spellcasters are intentionally gutting their own spellcasting power, which doesn't exactly help the Fighter's case that the "simple" class needs to be a pro powergamer munchkin in order to keep up with the power level Druids get by complete accident.

It also does occur that fighters (or, in the 3E-era, barbarians) will manage to outshine wizards, by mere happenstance. The wizard will take sleep and color spray, and then come across a bunch of skeletons; the druid will take entangle, and the boss fight breaks out on the second floor of the inn; or sometimes, the enemies just makes the save, or get a lucky crit and drop the caster outright. Moreso earlier in the game, where spells are more limited of a resource, but that is where most play actually takes place so it follows that some people would have that experience.

Spellcasters certainly have more potential to be overpowered, but power-level in 3E is such an erratic thing anyway.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

That's really the Wizard's fault for not having a few scrolls of fireball or something. Damage is inefficient, yes, and they should never actually spend a spell slot actually preparing a damage, but again, they should at least have a scroll of fireball or two prepared just in case.

 

[Ahnehnois]

D&D is an intentionally balanced game

True, but usage limitations have never been an effective balancing tool, because their impact is too variable and too easily avoided.

Balance occurs through things like option paralysis (the spellcaster often has the most effective option but may not know what it is or be able to decide on it fast enough to use it effectively), the action economy (multiple attacks vs one spell), chance of actions success (overcoming AC and the occasional DR is generally easier than overcoming saves, resistances, immunities, various forms of disruption and countering, and the occasional SR), and defense (d4 HD and lack of armor). Occasionally powerful spells are balanced through things like casting time, expensive components, or XP (or, if you go back, nastier things like forced aging).

Given that most characters will have less than a minute of high-leverage actions during any given day of adventuring (rounds of combat or rounds where other threats that require immediate action are in play), limiting usage is really not effective. It does prevent a wizard with Disintegrate from drilling a hole through the world, for example, but that's not really what we're talking about.

 

[Obryn]

You know the Wizard and CoDzilla aren't really that hampered by that limitation. Clerics and Druids function as well as the Fighter does and the Wizard can just make a bunch of scrolls to bypass his spell slot limitation. Plus material components aren't that big a balancing factor and just turns the game into focusing on the Wizard since the entire party is benefited by him having the components to cast spells.

Let's not forget Rope Trick and Leomund's Tiny Hut for all your spell recovery needs!

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Let's not forget Rope Trick and Leomund's Tiny Hut for all your spell recovery needs!

Very true, though I was mostly concerning with level 1-3 play there, when the casters are supposed to be in their "weak" phase.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

That's really the Wizard's fault for not having a few scrolls of fireball or something. Damage is inefficient, yes, and they should never actually spend a spell slot actually preparing a damage, but again, they should at least have a scroll of fireball or two prepared just in case.

Now you're making even more assumptions, about the placement and creation of scrolls within the world, and with party wealth. You realize that a single scroll of fireball is worth the equivalent of 7.5 pounds of gold? And that's for a spell with caster level 5 and save DC 14.

Sometimes - oftentimes - you won't have an excess of money on your hands. You may not have an excess of time to craft, either, even if one day of work would save you almost 4 pounds of gold.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Now you're making even more assumptions, about the placement and creation of scrolls within the world, and with party wealth. You realize that a single scroll of fireball is worth the equivalent of 7.5 pounds of gold? And that's for a spell with caster level 5 and save DC 14.

Sometimes - oftentimes - you won't have an excess of money on your hands. You may not have an excess of time to craft, either, even if one day of work would save you almost 4 pounds of gold.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scribe_Scroll

Wizards get Scribe Scroll as a free feat at level 1. Levels 1-3 are what I'm talking about as I mentioned a bit earlier.

Assuming the Wizard's making a Scroll of Fireball at level 3, it'll cost spell level × its caster level × 25 gp, so (spell level)1 times (caster level)3 times 25=75 gp per Scroll of Fireball.

Scribing a scroll takes 1 day per 1,000gp(1000gp/24hrs=~42gp/hr), so crafting a 75gp scroll takes about 2 hours each. Assuming the Wizard wants, let's say 3 scrolls as a safety precaution, this takes about 6 hours and costs 225gp.

6 hours should be doable as long as you have any real amount of downtime, and if not, it's 2 hours per scroll in a pinch and the rest can be made another time.

Assuming the game also follows the WBL charts(http://www.dndarchive.com/forums/depth-roleplay-qa/character-wealth-level), the Wizard should accumulated about 2,700gp by the time he hits level 3(give or take depending on how much extra gold he's gotten, and what he's bought beforehand). 225gp is a drop in the bucket compared to that.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Assuming the Wizard's making a Scroll of Fireball at level 3, it'll cost spell level × its caster level × 25 gp, so (spell level)1 times (caster level)3 times 25=75 gp per Scroll of Fireball.

So it's not fireball, because you can't cast third-level spells until you are caster level 5, at which point (3 x 5 x 25) = 375 gp. Where damage spells are fairly underwhelming is the character level 1-3 range, because your biggest bang is burning hands for 3d4 damage with a save DC of 11! And creating that scroll would cost you almost a pound (37.5 gp) of gold.

You can't assume that the DM is rigidly following the wealth-by-level guidelines. They aren't a rule in any sense of the word. It's more like a suggestion, at best, to help you balance the party against enemy encounters.

(Also, it's kind of in the fine print, but crafting any sort of magic item takes a minimum of 1 day.)

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Burning Hands then, it changes nothing about what I said.

And I'm going by what the SRD says about Scribe Scroll, which gives nothing about a minimum time.