D&D 5E Legends & Lore 3/17 /14

[Remathilis]

The bulette (or landshark) was thought to be extinct until recently when this horror reappeared. It was the result of a mad wizard's experimental cross breading of a snapping turtle and armadillo with infusions of demons' ichor.

Each type VI demon has its own name (Balor is a type VI demon of the largest size). Six are known to exist.

The fabled City of Brass, citadel of the Efreet, is the place whence they come.

The "Black Elves" or drow, are only legend. They purportedly dwell deep beneath the surface in a strange subterranean realm. The drow are said to be as dark as faeries are bright and as evil as the latter are good. Tales picture them as weak fighters but strong magic-users.

I dunno. Gary seemed pretty fond of assuming a lot about my campaign world...

 

[Yaarel]

Did Mike Mearls never actually play previous editions?

2nd edition's monsters were loaded with information and he even says this in his article so I'm not sure what he's even on about.

I don't really remember any particular mechanics that were tied to specific bits of lore that couldn't be used in other lore oriented games. Let's say the jackelwares had an ability called the "Gaze of Graz'zt"; you could simply replace the name or even just Graz'zt's name with something else. They are trying to be careful without even needing to be.

It's kind of like thinking you need to tip toe around the house even though no one else is home.

So, Jackalweres are slaves of Lamias ‘because Grazzt’? What happens if Grazzt doesn’t exist? Why don’t the Jackalweres kill their Lamia masters? They can and would, since all of them are evil. So why don’t they? There is no answer to this question because the description doesnt actually describe anything about the creatures. All it says is, Grazzt did it. Even the DMs who use the specific setting lack information that they need for their players to see, hear, and make sense of the behaviors.

Grazzt is a McGuffin. Not a description.

 

[Yaarel]

I dunno. Gary seemed pretty fond of assuming a lot about my campaign world...

Heh. Even Gary doesn’t use his own AD&D settings. His home campaigns are different.

AD&D offers a plethora of mutually contradicting concepts. The intent is to inspire individual DMs with optional possibilities for their own personal settings. The intent is the opposite of setting canon systematization.

Gary intends DMs to create their own settings. He was surprised when certain DMs wanted to be told what to do.

Having a pre-made setting has its uses. But it is one option. There are other settings.

The most important setting is the one that the DM creates and uses. Those are settings that WotC products need to support the most.

 

[Yaarel]

The story, what story?

You want to do a session with a few monsters here, then another with a few there - you don't need name beings.

You can link the jackalweres and lamia, but you don't need the demonlord.

Exactly. There is no need for a name being. For most DMing needs, the name being is distracting, intrusive, or disruptive.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Exactly. There is no need for a name being. For most DMing needs, the name being is distracting, intrusive, or disruptive.

No it isn't. For me, it is inspiring. Without that information I'd likely say "Ok, so there's a creature called a Lamia...where does it live? Why does it exist? What's its motivation? I don't know. I know how people think and feel, I'll use some human enemies instead."

With the information, a bunch of adventure ideas suddenly come to mind. These Lamia are creations of Graz'zt? Hmm, well, the presence of one could hint that these cultists have a connection to Graz'zt without saying it outright. After all, they are creations of Graz'zt but not every Lamia is being directly controlled by him. Why would Graz'zt be involved in this plot? There's a number of reasons. Hey, that gives me an idea for what could come next as the PCs slowly discover that Graz'zt is behind this and there's something more going on here than simply cultists sacrificing people.

I like places to start from. If each and every monster has a plot hook of some sort written into their lore it gives me hundreds of ready made ideas that I can build on. If I just want to throw a Lamia into a combat because I like its powers....well, the plot hook doesn't stop me from doing that at all.

 

[Ruzak]

As a kid (and now) I loved reading D&D books in part because they seemed to reveal some hidden truth. I worry we lose some of that notion of some long forgotten, objectively true reality if we are presented with several options. I want to read about these monsters as if they were real.

 

[Yaarel]

No it isn't. For me, it is inspiring. Without that information I'd likely say "Ok, so there's a creature called a Lamia...where does it live? Why does it exist? What's its motivation? I don't know. I know how people think and feel, I'll use some human enemies instead."

With the information, a bunch of adventure ideas suddenly come to mind. These Lamia are creations of Graz'zt? Hmm, well, the presence of one could hint that these cultists have a connection to Graz'zt without saying it outright. After all, they are creations of Graz'zt but not every Lamia is being directly controlled by him. Why would Graz'zt be involved in this plot? There's a number of reasons. Hey, that gives me an idea for what could come next as the PCs slowly discover that Graz'zt is behind this and there's something more going on here than simply cultists sacrificing people.

I like places to start from. If each and every monster has a plot hook of some sort written into their lore it gives me hundreds of ready made ideas that I can build on. If I just want to throw a Lamia into a combat because I like its powers....well, the plot hook doesn't stop me from doing that at all.

Where does the Lamia live? The desert.

The false answer, ‘Because Grazzt’, *fails* to answer this question.

Why does the Lamia exist? To eat hearts. The false answer, ‘Because Grazzt’, fails this question. (Ok, why hearts, still needs an answer.)

What motivates the Lamia? The Lamia likes to use illusions to trick its prey, then attack it by surprise while its guard is down.

Why does the Lamia often associate with the Jackalwere? The Lamia only eats the hearts, so the Jackalweres can eat the rest of the carcass afterward. Both of them are tricksters, who enjoy elaborate deceptions to attack a helpless victim. Often the Lamia lures the victim while the Jackalwere puts the victim to sleep.

Even if there is a Human ‘cultist’, why would the ‘cultist’ risk personal safety by associating with monsters like Lamia and Jackalwere? Such a question still requires an answer. To the degree ‘Because Grazzt’ is absent from the answer, the real answer becomes more plausible, more interesting, more interrelational, and more useful to the DM when deciding how the monsters respond during an encounter.

The Planescape Setting Guide lists specific NPCs (leaders, gods, archfey, archdevils, demon lords, primordeals, etcetera) to give ideas for an *adventure* that might run into certain monsters.

But the Planescape Monster Manual needs to give ideas for what happens during an *encounter* with a monster.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Where does the Lamia live? The desert.

The false answer, ‘Because Grazzt’, *fails* to answer this question.

I'm not saying you don't need that other information as well, but I like to know the story behind creatures in addition to just their information.

Even if there is a Human ‘cultist’, why would the ‘cultist’ risk personal safety by associating with monsters like Lamia and Jackalwere? Such a question still requires an answer. To the degree ‘Because Grazzt’ is absent from the answer, the real answer becomes more plausible, more interesting, more interrelational, and more useful to the DM when deciding how the monsters respond during an encounter.

Because these creatures were created by Graz'zt and will obey his wishes and the wishes of his followers IS the answer to this question. It is just as valid an excuse as any other.

I'm not entirely sure what the rest of what you said means.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm not saying you don't need that other information as well, but I like to know the story behind creatures in addition to just their information.


Because these creatures were created by Graz'zt and will obey his wishes and the wishes of his followers IS the answer to this question. It is just as valid an excuse as any other.

I'm not entirely sure what the rest of what you said means.

You would like to know the ‘origin story’ of a monster. That can be useful. But it depends on the setting. Different settings have different origins for a monster or race.

So, buy a Setting Guide for origin stories. A Bestiary is something different.

I don’t use the Planescape Setting. So any origin or explanation that presupposes a Wheel of Outer Planes, or objectively existing gods (or archfey, or archdevils, or demon lords, or primordeals, or any other over-important NPC) cannot work as an origin in the settings that I use. What can work for me is the descriptions of the monsters themselves. The monsters only.



Your post suggests, ‘Because Grazzt’, is an explanation for why Lamia and Jackalwere work together. But it explains nothing. Grazzt could have had, Lamia and Blue Whale, or Lamia and Tulips, or Lamia and Salt Deposits. Why was it, Lamia and Jackalwere? What is it about this pairing that makes sense? The false answer, ‘Because Grazzt’, answers nothing. The description still needs a real reason WHY, HOW, do Lamia and Jackalwere work together?

Your post suggests, ‘Because Grazzt’, explains how the Lamia and the Jackalwere will behave together. Specifically, the post says: ‘Because these creatures were created by Graz'zt and will obey his wishes and the wishes of his followers IS the answer to this question.’ But it answers nothing.

First, ‘Because Robot’ is a terrible motivation for story. Even if Lamia and Jackalwere ‘obey’ the wishes of Grazzt, they are probably not mindless robots. They probably have independent desires. They probably have intelligence, personality, alignment, and a typical behavior and survival strategy. Yet ‘Because Grazzt’, says nothing informative about these vital motives that a DM must know. Moreover, if the monsters have individual volition, how much more does the Human ‘cultist’ have an independent motive! It is irrelevant whether all three are worshiping Grazzt. The monster description would still have to explain in what ways these three creatures might be cooperating together, and what benefit each of them derives from the cooperation.

Saying, ‘Because Grazzt’, is equally informative as saying ‘Because cheese’.

The use of ‘Because Grazzt’ explains nothing. It distracts from and usually prevents the real information about the monster that the DM needs to know to understand how the monster will respond during an encounter. And it scares away customers who dont use the setting that has Grazzt in it.

 

[Yaarel]

If the goal is to only sell the Monster Manual to DMs who use the Planescape setting, well fine.

But if the goal is to sell it to all DMs, then it needs to focus on content that is useful for the rest of the DMs who dont use Planescape. The content needs to get out of the way of the rest of the settings.