D&D 5E Legends & Lore 3/17 /14

[Hussar]

Please don't start. If this were a comment about 4e you'd be edition-warring.

Y'know what? You're right. I'm going to bow out of the thread now before I get myself into trouble. I'm obviously wrong here since it only seems to be me who sees this. When no one else sees what you (the generic you, not the specific you) see, then the problem isn't them.

I just think it's a shame that changes get shot down.

 

[Stormonu]

To take some of the monster design theory being tossed around and pin it down, here is what I'd like the jackalwere writeup to look like:

Description jackalwere behavior & psychology, terrain, organizational structure & culture, treasure carried/stored, ecological niche, track & sign, common tactics, and possible allied/companion hunters.

Then three hooks a DM can choose from about how they fit in the overall lore of D&D:

• In the default Forgotten Realms setting, jackalwere are created by the demon lord Graz'zt thru dark magic corrupting the animal spirits of jackals. They serve as underlings to the Lamias, greater creations of Graz'zt, along with his six-fingered cultists.
• In other settings, such as Greyhawk, Mystara, or Dark Sun, jackalweres fit in more with pseudo-Egyptian cultures, and may be favored priests who worship the dark god Set.
• In other settings, like Ravenloft or Planescape, jackalweres may be the result of a terrible curse on anyone who steals from a dying man and lets him perish. Their mimicked human calls are an attempt to plead the gods for mercy from their curse, unwittingly attracting more victims who they cannot help but slake their bloodlust on.

Let FR be their vehicle for all the default stuff as it seems to be going, letting FR bear the burden of any default effect. Use definitive language with FR monster lore, e.g. "jackalweres are created by the demon lord Graz'zt." With example monster lore for other settings, however, use conditional language, e.g. "may be." Let it be up to the non-FR DM to decide which, if any, of the proffered monster lore fits into their campaign.

I like the multiple hooks, but I'd like to leave out naming specific campaign worlds. Something like:

• According to the heretical writings of the Book of Blood, jackalwere are created by the demon lord Graz'zt thru dark magic corrupting the animal spirits of jackals. They serve as underlings to the Lamias, greater creations of Graz'zt, along with his six-fingered cultists.
• In some ancient cultures, Jackalweres are favored priests and profess worship of a similarly jackal-headed god.
• Peasants sometime whisper that Jackalweres are the result of a terrible curse on anyone who steals from a dying man and lets him perish. Their mimicked human calls are an attempt to plead the gods for mercy from their curse, unwittingly attracting more victims who they cannot help but slake their bloodlust on.

Some, all or none of the above may then be true, as the DM sees to make fit.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I guess it worked for 2nd edition...

The 2e MM is still one of the best-loved monster books in D&D, so it's not a bad place to start.

But I'd go even further: where the 2e MM didn't give you a world, it presumed FR/Greyhawk. Lets call them out as specific, too.

It just seems that nearly anything can be viewed as "campaign specific" to someone. At what point does it stop being generic?

That's part of why I say that there's not really any such thing as generic. Everything is actually campaign specific. D&D monster lore just has a tendency to forget that.

But change a niche monster like an eladrin and suddenly you're a monster who is eating DnD's babies.

I think opt-in lore mitigates this, because new lore isn't the presumed default. Eladrin being courtly elves from the Feywild is not a bad story, it's just not necessarily a better story for people who have opted into some other lore. If the lore isn't default, you don't risk people making the assumption that it is true, and they know from the outset that, okay, Eladrin in the Nentir Vale are courtly elves from the Feywild, but Eladrin in your DM's campaign might not be.

Description jackalwere behavior & psychology, terrain, organizational structure & culture, treasure carried/stored, ecological niche, track & sign, common tactics, and possible allied/companion hunters.

Then three hooks a DM can choose from about how they fit in the overall lore of D&D:

In the default Forgotten Realms setting, jackalwere are created by the demon lord Graz'zt thru dark magic corrupting the animal spirits of jackals. They serve as underlings to the Lamias, greater creations of Graz'zt, along with his six-fingered cultists.
In other settings, such as Greyhawk, Mystara, or Dark Sun, jackalweres fit in more with pseudo-Egyptian cultures, and may be favored priests who worship the dark god Set.
In other settings, like Ravenloft or Planescape, jackalweres may be the result of a terrible curse on anyone who steals from a dying man and lets him perish. Their mimicked human calls are an attempt to plead the gods for mercy from their curse, unwittingly attracting more victims who they cannot help but slake their bloodlust on.

According to the heretical writings of the Book of Blood, jackalwere are created by the demon lord Graz'zt thru dark magic corrupting the animal spirits of jackals. They serve as underlings to the Lamias, greater creations of Graz'zt, along with his six-fingered cultists.
In some ancient cultures, Jackalweres are favored priests and profess worship of a similarly jackal-headed god.
Peasants sometime whisper that Jackalweres are the result of a terrible curse on anyone who steals from a dying man and lets him perish. Their mimicked human calls are an attempt to plead the gods for mercy from their curse, unwittingly attracting more victims who they cannot help but slake their bloodlust on.

I don't know how this might fly with the Space Police ("extra word count eats up more monsters!"), but both of these are improvements on what the article seems to indicate is going to be 5e's approach in my mind.

Being specific keeps things honest, being vague at least keeps things flexible and open-ended.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Let me just point out for those who didn't see the context from which my comment was from... no, "wanting to have lore" does not mean you are unintelligent. That was in no way the point that my comment trail was leading to. I won't bother rehashing my actual point here... but it should become clear if you go back to the beginning of the thread and follow the discussion that KM and I had. I think my feelings were pretty well spelled out (even if you disagree with them, which is fine.)

 

[Agamon]

I like the multiple hooks, but I'd like to leave out naming specific campaign worlds. Something like:

• According to the heretical writings of the Book of Blood, jackalwere are created by the demon lord Graz'zt thru dark magic corrupting the animal spirits of jackals. They serve as underlings to the Lamias, greater creations of Graz'zt, along with his six-fingered cultists.
• In some ancient cultures, Jackalweres are favored priests and profess worship of a similarly jackal-headed god.
• Peasants sometime whisper that Jackalweres are the result of a terrible curse on anyone who steals from a dying man and lets him perish. Their mimicked human calls are an attempt to plead the gods for mercy from their curse, unwittingly attracting more victims who they cannot help but slake their bloodlust on.

Some, all or none of the above may then be true, as the DM sees to make fit.

I'd subscribe to this idea. Not only does it give you multiple different ideas for how monsters might work, but it doesn't shoehorn them into settings you may or may not care about, as well as infers an unspoken, "or Jackalwares work however you want." Perfect.

 

[Dausuul]

I'd subscribe to this idea. Not only does it give you multiple different ideas for how monsters might work, but it doesn't shoehorn them into settings you may or may not care about, as well as infers an unspoken, "or Jackalwares work however you want." Perfect.

I agree. It even has other references (mysterious ancient cultures, the heretical Book of Blood) that could spark ideas for the DM. This is the right way to do lore in a non-setting-specific book.