Pathfinder 1E So what do you think is wrong with Pathfinder? Post your problems and we will fix it.

[Imaro]

Because some situations are just impossible without magic. That's just how it rolls. If that player wants to tap into some martial magic, it's up to the player. If the player wants to keep his character purely mundane there will be no complaints.

Edit: If you want to ask me a question, just ask it. This going back and forth trying to trap me in some kind of logic error is tiring. Besides I thought you done with this conversation because you came to the realization that neither of us were going to change each other's mind.

Yes but you decided to continue and others have joined so I changed my mind I'm allowed to do that correct?

I'm not trying to trap you, but I also don't want to make a mistake and assume something that isn't true... you could have easily said... Well I would assume martial magic can only enhance what is already physically possible... but you didn't you said it was capable of allowing someone to vanish on a featureless plain.

Now, moving on... what would be the drawbacks to saying martial power is magical in your game? Since we clearly see the drawback of making it mundane. Oh, and if you don't want to answer that's fine just say so.

 

[herrozerro]

You know, as I said before, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I don't really care about 4e warriors one way or the other and I fully understand that 4e is ambiguous about things so that you can reskin it however you want. But if you have to make the argument that a power that gives you regeneration 2+ Con is not really giving you regeneration, then I think you are at the point where you are just being contrary to be contrary. Regeneration is more or less defined as your flesh stitching itself back together.

That being said, regeneration can be explained in non-magical terms, but its still pretty extraordinary and super-human.

Regeneration in 4e is defined in phb 293:

"Regeneration is a special form of healing that restoresa fixed number of hit points every round. Regeneration
doesn’t rely on healing surges."

There is nothing in the regeneration entry about wounds closing or skin sticking back together. In fact since 4e has no wound system, all it does is restore HP. The flavor of regeneration is up to the power, and to an extent the player's flavor as well.

For example, Boundless endurance's flavor is just shaking of your wounds. The only other martial power in the phb with regeneration is Unyielding avalanche, a 15th level fighter power. No mention of wounds magically closing in the flavor or title.

If you'd like to find me a definition of regeneration from 4e that shows that all regeneration is wolverine like healing, be my guest.

 

[herrozerro]

Now, moving on... what would be the drawbacks to saying martial power is magical in your game? Since we clearly see the drawback of making it mundane. Oh, and if you don't want to answer that's fine just say so.

No drawbacks, the only drawbacks are player generated.

And this isn't a drawback, it's merely exercising DM perrogitive, from PHB 54:

"You can use a power whenever you are able to takethe action the power requires. (Certain conditions, as
defined in Chapter 9, prohibit you from taking actions.)
Your DM might rule that you can’t use powers in special
circumstances, such as when your hands are tied."

If the player is playing a character with no magical ability at all, then that player would probably expect their powers not to work sometimes because it's not magic. Even then, a magical player would have to expect things like anti-magic, a teleporter would have to expect to encounter anti-teleportation at some point.

Edit: Though, I'm pretty lenient, hiding on a featureless plane with no cover and no darkness to hide is is probably about the only thing that wouldn't allow that power to work.

 

[Wicht]

If you'd like to find me a definition of regeneration from 4e that shows that all regeneration is wolverine like healing, be my guest.

I'll pass. I'm not interested in trying to prove that words mean what they are generally understood to mean. If your supposition is that the 4e writers took well understood words and elected to give them entirely new meanings, I got nothing, though I think it a strange way to design a game. Generally designers like to glom onto words that are already understood, like fire, ice, sword, damage, and they use these words precisely because they capture a certain flavor all of their own without having to create a new lexicon. I would have assumed that "regeneration" was similarly chosen because it implies a healing and regrowth. But I don't play 4e, so what do I know?

 

[herrozerro]

I'll pass. I'm not interested in trying to prove that words mean what they are generally understood to mean. If your supposition is that the 4e writers took well understood words and elected to give them entirely new meanings, I got nothing, though I think it a strange way to design a game. Generally designers like to glom onto words that are already understood, like fire, ice, sword, damage, and they use these words precisely because they capture a certain flavor all of their own without having to create a new lexicon. I would have assumed that "regeneration" was similarly chosen because it implies a healing and regrowth. But I don't play 4e, so what do I know?

Fair enough, but the biological regeneration is only one of many meanings of the word.

 

[herrozerro]

Personally, I view martial regeneration as 3.5 fast healing. basically the same thing except it doesnt regrow limbs (something that isn't in 4e anyways). 4e regeneration is just a special kind of healing that just regenerates HP per turn. the flavor is up to the power source/power/flavor.

 

[Wicht]

Fair enough, but the biological regeneration is only one of many meanings of the word.

Come on. Are we that desperate for an argument? Really?

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Regeneration is more or less defined as your flesh stitching itself back together.

[citation needed]

That being said, regeneration can be explained in non-magical terms, but its still pretty extraordinary and super-human.

I never denied it was extraordinary and superhuman. I DO deny it's innately magical though.

 

[Wicht]

[citation needed]

"renewal or restoration of a body, bodily part, or biological system (as a forest) after injury or as a normal process" - Merriam Webster

"the restoration or new growth by an organism of organs, tissues, etc., that have been lost, removed, or injured." - dictionary.com

 

[Ahnehnois]

I never denied it was extraordinary and superhuman. I DO deny it's innately magical though.

And yet, at the same time, you have defined the ability to wave a magic wand as innately magical.