D&D 5E Does 5E avoid the overloads of previous editions?

[Mistwell]

Exactly!

What would D&D bring to the media that Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Percy Jackson hasn't already?

It brings another well recognized brand that people like.

What does Spiderman bring that Superman doesn't that X-men don't that Iron Man doesn't? They're all superheroes, but they're all well liked and recognizable. It's not like the market can only bare one fantasy thing, and in fact you just named three that existed simultaneously just fine.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Exactly!

What would D&D bring to the media that Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Percy Jackson hasn't already?

Yep!

Lord of the Rings works because it was the original thing that kicked off the high-fantasy craze many decades ago. As such, it carries a certain cachet within the public imagination. People who have never picked up a Tolkien book know that Gandalf was a wizard and Bilbo was a hobbit. It has strong name recognition.

Harry Potter was derivative in it's initial concept (from Gaiman's Books of Magic), but went off in it's own direction. Most of the public weren't familiar with the Books of Magic, so Harry Potter looked like something new and original. It was one of the first children's series to develop a very strong adult following, and the author was very savvy about marketing and many other things. It is a very strong and valuable brand.

Percy Jackson took a very old concept that was not frequently used and brought it into the modern world.

Indiana Jones took a genre that had fallen out of favor but was still floating in the public consciousness and presented it in the dominant entertainment medium of the time, with just the right blend of things that could appeal to all ages.

Those are all strong brands that have been marketed well.

D&D doesn't have a strong brand in the public conscience, beyond an association with geeky teenagers and (for a few) the old urban legends about Satanism and suicide. The setting and concepts look cliche in today's world, and were cliche' back when it was first invented. What caught people's imagination in the early days of D&D was the idea of combining roleplaying and wargaming. It was highly innovative in the sense of establishing a new hobby and industry, but not in the sense of establishing a compelling fictional world. That doesn't translate well into brand marketing outside of the initial hobby community.

WotC and Hasbro don't seem to have a good grasp of Marketing and Brand Management 101. Though Hasbro is a big, old company, their experience is with board games and more traditional types of toys, rather than larger fictional world settings. WotC was a strong, innovative company years ago, but have really missed the mark in the last decade or so, at least when it comes to rpgs. I don't know if that came about from changes in personnel, growing pains, or what, but it has been pretty evident. They were smart to try to bring in long-established successful rpg designers like Monte Cook, but we all saw how that turned out.

 

[Morrus]

No, not at all.

And that's because the other part of their business model requires getting rid of staff 1-2 times a year and, as they haven't done that for a while, I would say that this Christmas is going to see quite a few people leaving, including people who may have said such things in public....

So what, other than an actual indication, would you consider an indication? I mean, when you're saying direct statements do not constitute an indication, you're saying that indications do not exist. And when your opinion hinges on indications, which do not exist, aren't we just talking about magic or something?

 

[pickin_grinnin]

It brings another well recognized brand that people like.

What does Spiderman bring that Superman doesn't that X-men don't that Iron Man doesn't? They're all superheroes, but they're all well liked and recognizable. It's not like the market can only bare one fantasy thing, and in fact you just named three that existed simultaneously just fine.

D&D is not a well recognized brand that the general public likes. A significant portion of the public views it in a slightly negative way, in fact. It is a highly recognized and well-loved brand within the rpg community, but that has nothing to do with marketing to the general public.

Superman, Spiderman, etc. are the big defining characters of the comic genre. Most people either read comics at some point as children, saw cartoons, played with action figures, etc. Most people don't know anything about the 99% of DC and Marvel characters that aren't the flagship ones, which is why you don't see much marketing centered around them.

DC and Marvel's biggest mistakes throughout the decades (which almost shut them down, in Marvel's case) was a complete and utter disregard for the brand power of their major characters. They have only started to leverage that in a big way in the last couple of decades, and are reaping the financial rewards of doing so. Their core products - comics - continue to shrink in sales, but they have finally realized the true economic power of nostalgia and simple character recognition when monetizing things in other media and product lines.

D&D doesn't have any highly recognizable characters. It doesn't have an original setting or world that caught most of the general public's imagination when they were kids. It is a game system designed around a cliched genre. It is strong because it helped to define and create a hobby, and because it has been around so long, but all of that only matters to hobbyists. The general public could care less.

The White Wolf universe, on the other hand, was extensive and different than most vampire/werewolf/etc. offerings at the time. It could have been monetized in a bigger way, and White Wolf tried to do that, but unfortunately it just didn't work out for them. Other people moved in and directly ripped off their ideas (and got away with it in court) because they had more Hollywood and publishing clout. What hurt White Wolf in that regard was that they were a small company.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I disagree. And the fact it's popped up in everything from Big Bang Theory to Community to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon to the best watched web shows, all just in the past six months, tells me you're wrong. It has substantially more brand recognition than "generic high fantasy".

I'm going to use Big Bang Theory for my arguememt. I was watching it the other day during lunch at work, during the program, it was mentioned that they only play "Lawful Good" characters. I was the only one to get the tiny pun and that is usually what happens in any show where D&D is mentioned. Everyone knows who Spiderman, the Hulk, and Superman is without ever reading a comic book. Those three characters have not only been around a very long time, but they have developed a reputation that D&D will never have.

 

[Mistwell]

D&D is not a well recognized brand that the general public likes.

I disagree, and I just gave a list of examples from just the last 6 months to back up my disagreement.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm going to use Big Bang Theory for my arguememt. I was watching it the other day during lunch at work, during the program, it was mentioned that they only play "Lawful Good" characters. I was the only one to get the tiny pun and that is usually what happens in any show where D&D is mentioned. Everyone knows who Spiderman, the Hulk, and Superman is without ever reading a comic book. Those three characters have not only been around a very long time, but they have developed a reputation that D&D will never have.

As I said, it's not as well known as the famous superheroes, but if it can obtain just 1/100th the level of recognition, it's a sizable and valuable market to go after.

And to be clear, we're not arguing theory here. In less than a year's worth of time it's going to happen - Hasbro is going ahead with the mass marketing of D&D. This will be an interesting discussion to return to during that period of time.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

As I said, it's not as well known as the famous superheroes, but if it can obtain just 1/100th the level of recognition, it's a sizable and valuable market to go after.

And to be clear, we're not arguing theory here. In less than a year's worth of time it's going to happen - Hasbro is going ahead with the mass marketing of D&D. This will be an interesting discussion to return to during that period of time.

Well go ahead and put me down as saying it will fail. If it doesn't then great, but I bet you it will not succeed.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I disagree. And the fact it's popped up in everything from Big Bang Theory to Community to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon to the best watched web shows, all just in the past six months, tells me you're wrong. It has substantially more brand recognition than "generic high fantasy".

Most people have heard about it. That doesn't mean they are interested in buying anything related to it, or have any nostalgic feelings towards it. Recognition alone doesn't necessarily relate to sales. It has to be positive recognition to translate in that way.

 

[Mistwell]

Most people have heard about it. That doesn't mean they are interested in buying anything related to it, or have any nostalgic feelings towards it. Recognition alone doesn't necessarily relate to sales. It has to be positive recognition to translate in that way.

All of those shows were positive towards D&D. It was portrayed as a necessary element of nerdy education. It's hip to be a nerd these days, and the d20 symbol is a strong one in those circles. I think your assumptions about negative association are a tad outdated these days. The generation that came next thinks D&D (in theory) is cool.

Remember, comic books also used to have a negative connotation, not too long ago. Heck, even personal computers did. Ans video games. These things change, and D&D turned that corner some years ago.