D&D 5E What D&D should learn from a Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones)

[variant]

The main thing D&D writers should learn from ASoIF is how to get rid of characters.

 

[DMZ2112]

WotC's most recent setting is the default 4e world and cosmology. Gods (and other quasi-divine beings) are fundamental to that setting, and figure prominently in background material and epic-tier monster catalogues.

Pemerton, you know how much I love the PoL setting and how much I wish it was being carried forward into D&D5, but we all see how the PoL setting worked out in the end. Sad face.

 

[variant]

The biggest issue of the cosmological aspects of D&D is that the cosmology makes little sense at all.

First, why in the world would anyone worship a god that promises a horrible afterlife?

Secondly, what is determining what is good and evil, chaos and law? There has to be some objective truth above the gods because the gods themselves have alignments and the planes they reside on are in a sense aligned as well.

Thirdly, why does the Prime Material Plane even exist when there are perfectly habitable infinitely large peaceful planes and a potentially infinite amount of demiplanes? Why in the world would a god ever want to create a species of people on this plane when they could isolate their worshipers from all others?

Fourthly, why do the planes exist at all? What's their ultimate purpose? Why do the gods exist?

Fifthly, how are the planes infinite? An actual infinite leads to all kinds of absurdities, and if they are infinite, they cannot touch other planes. Also, if they are infinite then logically only one would exist and you would only really need one since it's infinite.

After all, you could place Toril on a random point on an infinite plane and there would be no worry that it would have contact from anything it's not suppose to because in an infinite plane there would be infinite space between Toril and anything else. It's almost as if the cosmology was designed to violate Occam's razor.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

First, why in the world would anyone worship a god that promises a horrible afterlife?

They wouldn't. That's why the various forms of real-world Satanism are in no way similar to what many Christians think they are.

 

[GMMichael]

If you're going to do something, do it well. While also being terribly lucky (this applies more to the show than the books).

The announcement of Morningstar shows that D&D is all about multimedia. Like Game of Thrones going to TV.

What about plot/campaign planning?

There have been lots of threats of world-shattering events in SoIaF, but just threats. Should D&D 5 let DMs know that it's okay to have something weaker than a dracolich at the end of every campaign?

 

[Grazzt]

The main thing D&D writers should learn from ASoIF is how to get rid of characters.

A good DM (or one trained in 1e) already knows how to do this.

 

[Lanefan]

A good DM (or one trained in 1e) already knows how to do this.

Ayup.

And a good player (or one trained in 1e) knows how to let them go.

Lanefan

 

[Sonny]

They wouldn't. That's why the various forms of real-world Satanism are in no way similar to what many Christians think they are.

Depends on what rewards they get immediately. People do a lot of things in the real world that have immediate gain, but long term negative effects. There's also the issue with people often thinking they're special and can sidestep these negative effects.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Depends on what rewards they get immediately. People do a lot of things in the real world that have immediate gain, but long term negative effects. There's also the issue with people often thinking they're special and can sidestep these negative effects.

Sure, that works for "Deal with the Devil" scenarios, like Faust, but it absolutely does not work for actual "worshipping an evil god" or sustained devil-worship or the like.

For that to work, you need the followers to believe that they are actually going to get an eternal or nigh-eternal reward. This is especially so in 90% of the D&D worlds, where the existence of an afterlife and the soul is pretty much completely demonstrable and accepted, and not even silently questioned.

The simple answer is that worshipping an evil being should in no way send one "to hell" or any equivalent thereof, unless it is to rule over the peons who get dragged there or something. There's no particular reason that worshipping Baddy the Badgod should damn you, unless the Christian God is in charge of the entire pantheon (which is kind of the latter-day FR situation, sadly, bloody AO - he even has a lame real-world-invoking name - AO i.e. the Alpha and the Omega), rather it should just send you to Baddy the Badgod's version of heaven, which maybe some really scary stuff, probably involving lording it over stolen souls or servitors or something, or constant in-fighting in a way which seems enjoyable (I mean, the Vikings had Valhalla, which seems like a permanent bad Friday night to me, but apparently they liked the concept!), or whatever.

The problem is, it absolute is a competition, just like with real-world religions. Christianity succeeded so extremely massively because it appealed to the downtrodden masses - the slaves and serfs - you didn't need to be important or powerful or skilled or of a specific ethnic background to get to heaven, you just had to follow the rules, and anyone could join, and the rules were about being nice to people, largely, not doing crazy stuff. And your get to leave in Heaven forever! Nice! Plus you can't even be locked out by previous sins! They can be forgiven! Awesome.

So when Baddy the Badgod only offers you a chance at heaven, and only if you like, conquer a kingdom in his name or some shiz, he's not going to get a lot of takers. So he needs to up his game. Anyway, I could go on like this, but I'll TLDR it:

TLDR: Deal with the devil and long-term-worship of a scary god/demon are not the same scenarios.

 

[Savage Wombat]

In D&D, the afterlife works the way you think the world works. If you think that life is an every-man-for-himself, dog-eat-dog killfest, then you're chaotic evil and that's what you get for an afterlife.

I suspect the gods of evil spin it this way - yes, the average person is going to be a larva in the Abyss, but that's not for the special elite folks who do the best evilling - those that follow my teachings will be the strong in the next life. This is what we call a "lie".