The great modrons march

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6775160]wwanno[/MENTION]
I'd be a little wary of the plot device you mentioned where their prime good has no value in Sigil. First, that directly contradicts the source material (gold is gold, cutter!). Second, it is hardly motive to stick around on the planes. After all, they've just made it thru Baator! They're probably eager to return home! What keeps them in Sigil? Maybe the portal back home is locked, cycles every year, or requires an exceedingly rare component (all opportunities to tie into the GMM)? And, from a Player's perspective, it might be nice if you let them know up front that this will be a planar campaign, just so they aren't fighting you tooth & nail the whole time trying to get back home.

The Great Modron March, like most of the 2e adventures, while it has a great premise, suffers from railroading. One of the best changes you can make to that adventure is to give the players a choice about which adventure sites to visit and how to resolve the situations they encounter. Also, GMM is meant to lead directly into Dead Gods and facing Orcus, so if you plan to do the 2 together, definitely incorporate more hints about Orcus in GMM.

As far as reasons to get involved after delivering the magic book to Heiron in Automata, the whole idea of camp followers for the GMM is kind of bizarre and without any real point. GMM's "The Unswerving Path" assumes the PCs are drawn to investigating by their factions. However, you said your players will be running primes... Maybe hint that the modrons might have a way for the PCs to return home? Or from the start allude to the fact that this is an abnormal Great Modron March and their prime home world is on the modrons' path.

 

[wwanno]

Right...they have too much iron....nevermind....they will have anyway little money from the prime.

I said that the NPC will be the one who will explain them "how it works" in the first chapter of the GMM (so they should know what the factions are - what is their meaning is something else), but......why should he explain anything to a bunch of clueless he could better manipulate if they remain clueless???

 

[wwanno]

[MENTION=6775160]wwanno[/MENTION]
I'd be a little wary of the plot device you mentioned where their prime good has no value in Sigil. First, that directly contradicts the source material (gold is gold, cutter!). Second, it is hardly motive to stick around on the planes. After all, they've just made it thru Baator! They're probably eager to return home! What keeps them in Sigil? Maybe the portal back home is locked, cycles every year, or requires an exceedingly rare component (all opportunities to tie into the GMM)? And, from a Player's perspective, it might be nice if you let them know up front that this will be a planar campaign, just so they aren't fighting you tooth & nail the whole time trying to get back home.

The Great Modron March, like most of the 2e adventures, while it has a great premise, suffers from railroading. One of the best changes you can make to that adventure is to give the players a choice about which adventure sites to visit and how to resolve the situations they encounter. Also, GMM is meant to lead directly into Dead Gods and facing Orcus, so if you plan to do the 2 together, definitely incorporate more hints about Orcus in GMM.

As far as reasons to get involved after delivering the magic book to Heiron in Automata, the whole idea of camp followers for the GMM is kind of bizarre and without any real point. GMM's "The Unswerving Path" assumes the PCs are drawn to investigating by their factions. However, you said your players will be running primes... Maybe hint that the modrons might have a way for the PCs to return home? Or from the start allude to the fact that this is an abnormal Great Modron March and their prime home world is on the modrons' path.

I like the idea of letting them hope that folloing the path of the march they eventually go bak home (I didn't read the whole module yet, so I may be wrong, but don't they reach Undermountain at some point? They are from the FR, but they will never know XD )

I will play Dead Gods, but I have to buy it first, I want it in my collection.

What could those hints about Orcus/Tenebrous be?

 

[DMZ2112]

why should he explain anything to a bunch of clueless he could better manipulate if they remain clueless???

Well, that's the problem with planar campaigns for prime characters. They don't understand anything that's happening around them. You can describe it, but unless you take the time to explain to the /players/ what their characters /aren't/ seeing, meaning will be lost on them. This is a subject for another (much longer) thread, but one of Planescape's greatest weaknesses is that it seems designed to drag clueless (or worse, actively misinformed) primes into the planes, but if you do so its volumes of fluff are completely wasted. It's just a place with funny architecture and sharp weeds.

Put simply: if this NPC manipulates your PCs, they'll probably understand that they've been manipulated. But will they understand how? Or why?

So after the first five levels of the campaign, your Revolutionary Guard NPC whips off his Guvner disguise and announces that he's actually Revolutionary League.

Do your players know who the Guvners are? Probably, the Fraternity of Order is pretty ubiquitous and dominant in Sigil, so they'll at least have a sense that this guy was impersonating a city official.

Do your players know who the Revolutionary League are? Far less likely, particularly since, as a Revolutionary League member, the NPC would be inclined not to dish on his highly secretive faction. But still possible.

Most importantly, do your players understand the political significance of a Revolutionary League sleeper impersonating a Guvner namer? This is what /you/ like about the scenario, but unless your campaign has already delved pretty deep into Sigillian politics, it's not going to register with your players. The best reaction you're going to get is, "Okay, this guy's a spy."

It's not that these problems aren't surmountable -- they are. The trick to a great Planescape campaign is in bringing the PCs along for the ride. You have to design the campaign pretty carefully to make sure that all the necessary exposition is relevant to the plot, so they earn the understanding they need, but it doesn't come across as lecturing. Otherwise you're just running a game in Weird Waterdeep and that's all your players are going to feel.

And in my experience, PCs can't wait to leave Weird Waterdeep. If you want them to stick around, you need to help them become part of their new home.

 

[wwanno]

Another little problem is that we (my group and me) are italians, and I am the only one who read/write/understand english (a little).
I cannot even give them the player's guide to the planes, they wouldn't read or understand it (and I would not give it to them, my precious!!!!).

 

[Olfan]

I ran a campaign where this module actually ran in the background of the party's campaign. They'd be in some weird locale and see the modrons marching and meet NPCs from it in passing, etc. Its something I like to do to create a more robust world and make the planes seem more wild and zany, just run two adventures simultaneously, and have the two intermix from time to time.

Obviously you don't "run" the second game, but it still happens and lets the players feel like big world changing events happen even though they're not involved in all of them. Don't know how helpful that is, but I can say I liked it, and would recommend it.

 

[DMZ2112]

Another little problem is that we (my group and me) are italians, and I am the only one who read/write/understand english (a little).
I cannot even give them the player's guide to the planes, they wouldn't read or understand it (and I would not give it to them, my precious!!!!).

Whew. Planescape is a tough translation job. All that slang!

You can make the campaign work, though. I think the trick is mystery, or if your players are not particularly curious, perhaps the promise of treasure. You need something to keep them on the planes long enough to learn how they work. Keep the reward-to-effort ratio nice and high. If figuring out the planes is too much work for what they're getting in return, they'll lose focus.

 

[wwanno]

Whew. Planescape is a tough translation job. All that slang!

You can make the campaign work, though. I think the trick is mystery, or if your players are not particularly curious, perhaps the promise of treasure. You need something to keep them on the planes long enough to learn how they work. Keep the reward-to-effort ratio nice and high. If figuring out the planes is too much work for what they're getting in return, they'll lose focus.

well I won't translate the slang, it is a foreign language to them after all.
they will have to guess the meaning from the context.

 

[Quickleaf]

I like the idea of letting them hope that folloing the path of the march they eventually go bak home (I didn't read the whole module yet, so I may be wrong, but don't they reach Undermountain at some point? They are from the FR, but they will never know XD )

I will play Dead Gods, but I have to buy it first, I want it in my collection.

What could those hints about Orcus/Tenebrous be?

No, GMM doesn't go thru Undermountain if I recall correctly; it's adventures strictly take place on the Outer Planes. But there's no reason you can't shake that up, it being an unusual March and all.

As for clues about Orcus, one place I would insert hints is by explicitly linking the Tacharim & Valra to the cult of Orcus (the Tacharim appear in Chapter III, Valran in Chalter IV). Orcus is looking for his Rod, which is why he killed Primus and hijacked the GMM. Perhaps the Tacharim are searching for ways to extract knowledge from the modrons for their master, Orcus?

well I won't translate the slang, it is a foreign language to them after all.
they will have to guess the meaning from the context.

Unfortunately Planescape was never translated to Italian, and while there are fan conversions for the CRPG Torment there aren't any I know of for the tabletop rpg.

 

[DMZ2112]

well I won't translate the slang, it is a foreign language to them after all.
they will have to guess the meaning from the context.

You'll have to let me know how that goes over. I'm curious, just because they're not (completely) nonsense words in English -- they actually do have etymology.

No, GMM doesn't go thru Undermountain if I recall correctly; it's adventures strictly take place on the Outer Planes. But there's no reason you can't shake that up, it being an unusual March and all.

GMM does go through a section of Undermountain, although its yet another one of Planescape's many winking nods to the dungeon master, as it's unlikely the players or characters will have the opportunity to find out that's where they are. It's the route the modrons take to get from one lower plane to another, although I can't remember which ones.

As for clues about Orcus, one place I would insert hints is by explicitly linking the Tacharim & Valra to the cult of Orcus (the Tacharim appear in Chapter III, Valran in Chalter IV). Orcus is looking for his Rod, which is why he killed Primus and hijacked the GMM. Perhaps the Tacharim are searching for ways to extract knowledge from the modrons for their master, Orcus?

Color me curious: how would you tie the Tacharim to Orcus,

Spoiler

considering that their shtick seems to be the prolonging of life and fending off of decay through the implantation of artificial body parts?