D&D 5E Should the Fighter's "Second Wind" ability grant temporary HP instead of regular HP?

[tsadkiel]

I decided a long time ago that I wasn't giving money to a company that didn't respect the old school crowd enough to give them an OPTIONAL rule to remove inspirational healing.

I've been playing and DMing (mostly DMing) since 1983. I gave up on both 3E and 4E well before the end of their respective runs, and I've spent the last few years mostly running assorted retroclones. Do I get to count as part of the Old School crowd? Because for me, to quote Michael Mornard, one of Gary's (and Dave's) players, "Hit points are hit points. They represent hit points, and they simulate hit points." I have absolutely zero problem with inspirational healing, and I wish people would stop implying that I do.

 

[RotGrub]

It seems trivially easy to have a Second Wind Alternative that

1) isn't spammable out of combat on a short rest schedule

and

2) allows people to have their HP as meat.

Second Wind: You have a limited well of stamina you can draw on to protect yourself from harm. When bloodied/below 50 % hit points, you can use a bonus action to gain temporary hit points equal to 1d10 + your fighter level.

Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.
​

Done. Over. Chicken Little can take 5.

If it was that easy I'm sure they could have spared the ink in the DMG for that option. No, I think it speaks to a larger design goal for 5e.

 

[RotGrub]

Unfortunately, that level of reasonability existed in 4e too where you could change healing rates in a sentence and the game works fine but those intent on winning edition wars refused to accept that.

This is the exact same argument with a fake nose and glasses.

Except.... they also didn't play it either....

 

[RotGrub]

Per the playtest data; most people don't actually mind inspirational healing. There are some that do, but many of those folks are not inclined to go with 5E for a variety of other reasons as well.

That said, I don't have any in my game, so take that for what it is worth.

Can we have a moratorium on people talking out of their butt and talking about what the system does or does not have conclusively and making decisions based on the system when NONE OF YOU HAVE THE SYSTEM.

I was wondering how they collected that much data on Second Wind when it only first appeared in the Sept 2013 packet. I could be wrong about the date, but I do recall it being late into the playtesting.

I think that SW is just something the designers loved. At this point, it doesn't mater, we know there are no alternative options to replace SW, Mearls said so.

 

[RotGrub]

No replacement option for second wind != alternate versions of second wind.

Second Wind with THP
Second Wind that does something else completely
Second Wind that reduces damage

etc.

Hence my statement about "wait till the dang game comes out before freaking out commences."

That's true, perhaps someone can ask Mearls that question.

 

[Obryn]

The reason I'm not going to houserule it is that Wotc is making a concerted effort to end my playstyle.

This is some Grade A, Pundit-level Paranoia which implies outright malice on the part of the designers.

It couldn't be more paranoid if all the PCs were dressed in red jumpsuits.

 

[RotGrub]

This is some Grade A, Pundit-level Paranoia which implies outright malice on the part of the designers.

It couldn't be more paranoid if all the PCs were dressed in red jumpsuits.

I don't agree that it was an attempt to end a previously supported play-style, but I do understand his frustration.

Unless Mearls is completely unaware that there are many D&D fans who don't like inspirational healing, it's rather hard to imagine how it wasn't a deliberate action.

 

[Cybit]

This is some Grade A, Pundit-level Paranoia which implies outright malice on the part of the designers.

It couldn't be more paranoid if all the PCs were dressed in red jumpsuits.

The irony alert is that I know first hand at least two of the developers that are quite old school / slow as hell healing lovers. I've heard second hand that one of the games being ran is a Dark Sun game where healing is several levels of insanity lower than typical old school. But in the basic game at release? Probably not going to start the game with a thousand different options. What about people who don't like Vancian casting?

Remember that the mechanics that are released are intended to support the story that comes out. So you're likely to see super gritty healing rules either in the DMG as a lever, and then as completely different options whenever Dark Sun gets released.

The amount of complete "pulling stuff out of our collective asses because we want confirmation bias damnit" is appalling at this point. I have people who I know have not seen updated final materials in 9+ months telling me what the "design philosophy" of a game is unfailingly based on the Starter Set character sheet and maybe the PHB; the first book of the entire game. Because every option we ever used in earlier editions were all in that first book, right?

Anyone else see how screwed up that is?

 

[RotGrub]

The irony alert is that I know first hand at least two of the developers that are quite old school / slow as hell healing lovers. I've heard second hand that one of the games being ran is a Dark Sun game where healing is several levels of insanity lower than typical old school. But in the basic game at release? Probably not going to start the game with a thousand different options. What about people who don't like Vancian casting?

Remember that the mechanics that are released are intended to support the story that comes out. So you're likely to see super gritty healing rules either in the DMG as a lever, and then as completely different options whenever Dark Sun gets released.

The amount of complete "pulling stuff out of our collective asses because we want confirmation bias damnit" is appalling at this point. I have people who I know have not seen updated final materials in 9+ months telling me what the "design philosophy" of a game is unfailingly based on the Starter Set character sheet and maybe the PHB; the first book of the entire game. Because every option we ever used in earlier editions were all in that first book, right?

Anyone else see how screwed up that is?

I think some people are basing these assertions on things Mearls has said about the PHB and DMG.

Like the previous poster, I also don't understand how someone who likes gritty healing rules can live with options like Second Wind and Hit Dice in the game. It would be very odd if the game provides gritty healing rules, but doesn't also modify powers like SW.

 

[Cybit]

I think some people are basing these assertions on things Mearls has said about the PHB and DMG.

Like the previous poster, I also don't understand how someone who likes gritty healing rules can live with options like Second Wind and Hit Dice in the game. It would be very odd if the game provides gritty healing rules, but doesn't also modify powers like SW.

#1) Gritty healing should not mean a complete lack of inspirational healing. You can absolutely have gritty healing and non-spellcaster healing. (I have no idea if this is being done or not at any level, but the two are not mutually exclusive).

2) People should really read into the context of Mearls' statements and look at the question he is specifically answering, not the one they want him to sort of answer. ;-)

3) People should also just be freaking patient.

Maybe it makes it in to the PHB / DMG initially, maybe it makes it into the inevitable Dark Sun / Ravenloft books, maybe it never gets made in. But there's a lot of really terrible context analysis and plain confirmation bias being used to "analyze" what Mearls has said. For giggles, anyone who is so sure about their belief that inspirational healing is a design philosophy through and through want to actually quote the question and the answer(s) Mearls gave?