D&D 5E 50/50 chance is 'easy'?

[Tormyr]

I'm not a trained athlete and I reckon my strength is just above average - maybe 11. If someone described a physical task as 'easy' I would expect that I had a greater than 50% chance of success. But in 5th edition the DC for an easy task is 10, which means, with no bonuses for proficiency or strength, it's a coin-flip.

'Difficult' (at DC20) is almost impossible.

I am less concerned about this from the perspective of character failure and more from the DM's point of view: straightforward language such as 'very easy, easy, moderate, difficult' is very useful when improvising DCs on the fly. I don't want to have to redefine what 'easy' means every time I use the word in that context (for example, by reminding myself that it means 'easy' only if you're trained, high-level and above average in ability).

Ability checks and skill checks are a big part of the game and I don't think they've got the DCs right at all.

Don't forget that the DC descriptions are relative and cover all characters, trained and untrained, from level 1 to 20. A DC20 strength check may be nearly impossible for you, but it is easy for the level 20 soldier trained in athletics and a 20 in strength. That character gets a +11 to their roll.

In a calm situation, your character with a strength of 11 can take 10 on his strength roll. This represents taking your time and being careful about it. You would then hit the Easy DC of 10 ever time. Under a combat or rushed situation, your wizard would still make it 55% of the time. Easy still seems like an appropriate descriptor for DC10 to me since an untrained character with a 10 stat can succeed 100% of the time when they can take their time.

I have a list of my players relevant information (AC, stats, ideals, etc.) so I know what their passive check would be. I will just move things along if I know that it is a calm situation and everyone can succeed by taking 10. Otherwise, you repeatedly run into the situation where someone flubs a die roll and it slows the action down.

 

[Agamon]

Wait, what was this thread about?

That's easy. It was about... *rolls a 1* ...uh.

Personally, I read Easy=Average, and Trivial as what some folks here think as Easy. If the PCs aren't rushed or something terrible will happen upon failure and their mod means an average roll will succeed at DC 10, they don't need to roll in my game. That makes it seem pretty easy.

 

[Blackbrrd]

The example DCs are provided next to the obstacle in an adventure, equipment, trap description, skill check or saving throw description. Look through the equipment page and see the DC to pick a lock or burst manacles or rope. Check an adventure to see how hard it is to climb a specific wall. A slimy, smooth, moss covered wall will be very hard or nearly impossible, but a rocky wall that is made out of handholds will be easy.

Looking at those, you will get a feel pretty quickly as to what a DC should be in an ad hoc situation.

My complaint was that I couldn't find the information in the Basic rules. (Except for the equipment stuff). I really hope they give some more examples in the rules, I don't see any reason not to. Having to browse through adventures to understand the rules is kind of backwards, and I don't have any adventures yet.

I hope it's missing from the basic rules because they haven't finished with the DMG yet, and that's where they explain how you set the DCs. (Since they are obviously just using the text from the PHB for the current basic rules).

 

[Tormyr]

My complaint was that I couldn't find the information in the Basic rules. (Except for the equipment stuff). I really hope they give some more examples in the rules, I don't see any reason not to. Having to browse through adventures to understand the rules is kind of backwards, and I don't have any adventures yet.

Did you ever download one of the later playtest packets? They had lots of adventures with DC examples in there. If not, I encourage you to just think about whether something seems easy, medium or hard if you were able to take your time, and then assign a DC of 10, 15 or 20. You will not be far off, and no one will know the difference.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Did you ever download one of the later playtest packets? They had lots of adventures with DC examples in there. If not, I encourage you to just think about whether something seems easy, medium or hard if you were able to take your time, and then assign a DC of 10, 15 or 20. You will not be far off, and no one will know the difference.

I did, but from about ten playtests ago. Probably not relevant anymore as they changed the whole system several times. I don't see how that makes the Basic rules any better. (I do find your advice helpful though, it's just a bit beside the point).

 

[jgsugden]

You're judging a relationship on the basis of a first date. We only have the basic 'easily digested' materials right now. There is likely to be a bit more depth in future materials. I'd wait to see the guide for DMs to determine whether there is enough guidance for DMs in how to establish DCs.

Regardless, there is a battle between keeping the game simple enough to flow and making it detailed enough to cover all situations accurately. You don't need a perfect simulation of realistic proportions to have an outstanding game - and getting one is often bad because the complexity breaks down the flow of a game.

That was one of my big problems in 4E - everything took too long or was so controlled that the story was disrupted while people rolled dice, looked over sheets and sheets of paper, and evaluated which action option in which order they'd do on their turn. In retrospect, 4E feels more like someone is giving me a logic test, while 5E feels more like someone is giving me a creative opportunity. Choose Your Own Adventure vs. a Novel.

 

[GMMichael]

The answer is between the lines in the Passive Checks section of the Basic Rules. A passive check is when you do something over and over, or the DM doesn't want you to know you're doing it. (Between the lines in the basic rules, probably overt in the PH.)

Like in 3E, it means take 10.

And so long as you can take 10 on an easy task, it will be easy. Now, if you're in combat, when even easy things seem tricky, a 50% chance isn't so much of a stretch.

 

[Mark CMG]

Good point. I think the dichotomy comes from the fact that, IRL, when people say something is 'easy' they mean that the chances of success is closer to 100%. In those cases, a DM wouldn't actually call for a roll, you'd just be able to do it. In context of dice rolls where there is supposed to be some meaningful chance of failure, easy necessarily means something more difficult.

In that context, 'very easy' meaning an 80% chance of success when rolled with no modifiers and 'easy' being a 55% chance of success makes some sense.

Remember, a DM is only supposed to call for a roll if there is a chance of failure and that failure is meaningful in some way.

And what about "Impossibly Easy?"

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

And what about "Impossibly Easy?"

You need a 20 for that

 

[evileeyore]

So what's the roll on a 1-in-1000 chance? Because that always succeeds.