Bring warlock into the normal continuum

[Sadrik]

So warlock has a unique casting methodology. I want to eliminate that unique casting method and have them use the regular spell slot methodology of 5e. What are the ramifications of doing that? Do they become too powerful? They would still get invocations, cantrips, and spells known. They would lose Mystic Arcanum.

I guess on the flip side could this be distilled into a unified methodology that could get applied to other caster classes? Further would it be too powerful or not powerful enough?

 

[RhaezDaevan]

So warlock has a unique casting methodology. I want to eliminate that unique casting method and have them use the regular spell slot methodology of 5e. What are the ramifications of doing that? Do they become too powerful? They would still get invocations, cantrips, and spells known. They would lose Mystic Arcanum.

I guess on the flip side could this be distilled into a unified methodology that could get applied to other caster classes? Further would it be too powerful or not powerful enough?

Any reason why you want to make these changes? Most of what makes the Warlock distinct is how they handle magic.

 

[Sadrik]

Any reason why you want to make these changes? Most of what makes the Warlock distinct is how they handle magic.

Multi-classing problems. Also I feel like unique casting mechanics should be a part of the DMG where the DM can add that to the classes as they feel are appropriate. For me, multi-classing is the main reason. Hence why I also want to reverse engineer the methodology so it can be applied to any caster type.

 

[Sadrik]

So if the warlock used the standard caster table (to allow easier multi-classing).

They would lose the Mystic Arcanum class feature.
Should the number of invocations be be reduced? Having a lower number of cantrips counter balances the number of invocations and they have a low number of spells known so this works for me.

To apply the warlock casting methodology to other classes, you use the warlock's spell slots, slot levels, and Mystic Arcanum class features. I might give +1 spell slot though so it would range from 2 to 5 rather than 1 to 4. This might be a good change for the warlock as written as well. Gives them a slight advantage up front.

Advantages of this methodology is that you recover your spell slots on a short rest. It relies heavily on balancing the short rests. If your DM or other party members do not want to take short rests after encounters then this methodology will be significantly weaker. If it is expected a short rest comes after an encounter (with exceptions) this becomes a feasible and very powerful casting methodology.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

So if the warlock used the standard caster table (to allow easier multi-classing).

They would lose the Mystic Arcanum class feature.
Should the number of invocations be be reduced? Having a lower number of cantrips counter balances the number of invocations and they have a low number of spells known so this works for me.

To apply the warlock casting methodology to other classes, you use the warlock's spell slots, slot levels, and Mystic Arcanum class features. I might give +1 spell slot though so it would range from 2 to 5 rather than 1 to 4. This might be a good change for the warlock as written as well. Gives them a slight advantage up front.

Advantages of this methodology is that you recover your spell slots on a short rest. It relies heavily on balancing the short rests. If your DM or other party members do not want to take short rests after encounters then this methodology will be significantly weaker. If it is expected a short rest comes after an encounter (with exceptions) this becomes a feasible and very powerful casting methodology.

Sounds like you want all spellcasting classes to have interchangeable spellcasting. Why not go whole-hog and just allow picking spell lists as well?

 

[Sadrik]

Sounds like you want all spellcasting classes to have interchangeable spellcasting. Why not go whole-hog and just allow picking spell lists as well?

Because the spell lists are what make the casters have a unique feel.

I think it would be possible to do that for a campaign but to keep the arcane/divine you want to keep them separate.

Again, I think there is some validity in deciding to be a cleric/warlock and just using the warlock casting methodology. Applying the warlock to the cleric. Then you level up appropriately. Pretty cool actually. All their spells refresh on a short rest. That is pretty neat.

I also feel another casting method would be spell/power points. Then that could be applied to any class.

What do you think? Would those be cool potential options?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Full caster, Eldritch Bolt Spammer,and the rest of the invocations (including at will illusions)? That might be a little much,

 

[Sadrik]

Full caster, Eldritch Bolt Spammer,and the rest of the invocations (including at will illusions)? That might be a little much,

Like way off or a little off in your opinion?

Eldritch blast is not that different from fire bolt that the wizard has so not sure if there is an issue there. I think the possibility of invocations pushing it over the top is a real concern though. They have a very limited spell known chart, the invocations could add to that to make it not so bad. Invocations would be synonymous with the sorcerers sorcery points. Which is better? Invocations or sorcery points?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Like way off or a little off in your opinion?

You'd be surprised what a creative player can do with At Will Disguise Self (He went thataway!), At Will Silent Image, and a variety of cantrip Sfx. (Prestidigitation and Thaumaturgy mostly).

Eldritch blast is not that different from fire bolt that the wizard has so not sure if there is an issue there.

Eldritch Blast on its own is perfectly fine. Slightly stronger than fire bolt, but who cares? Eldritch Bolt backed by +Cha to damage and a 10ft push - and as many attacks as a fighter - is the scary thing. A cantrip and two invocations make the warlock compete with the archer fighter for consistency - and they get the snazzy push effect. Of course they aren't as tough as the fighter (the Ranger would possibly be a better comparison - Warlock's again in that league).

I think the possibility of invocations pushing it over the top is a real concern though. They have a very limited spell known chart, the invocations could add to that to make it not so bad. Invocations would be synonymous with the sorcerers sorcery points. Which is better? Invocations or sorcery points?

Sorcery points make sorcerers better at things they could otherwise do. Invocations allow things they otherwise couldn't do.

 

[Sadrik]

The comprehensive rules for this:
Warlocks use the standard slot table.
Warlocks keep the standard cantrips, spells known, and invocations.
Invocations that use a spell slot are deleted but are added to the warlocks spells list.
Mystic arcanum class features are deleted.
All other features stay the same.

To add the warlock casting methodology to another casting class:
They gain spell slots (though I might add +1 at each level for standard warlock too for that matter).
They gain the max spell level.
They gain mystic arcanum class feature (though I might use a standard casters spell slots for spell levels 6-9 instead for this feature- also for the standard warlock).