D&D 5E Difference between critical hits and automatic hits.

[dd.stevenson]

But even then, a ranged fighter is likely to have the Archery Fighting Style, giving them a +2 to attacks with ranged weapons.

I don't agree this is a fair assumption--melee guys sometimes decide to switch out to ranged combat.

I only bring this up because I've had such a case arise in my game (IIRC it was an AC 15 gnoll hiding on the second floor of a hunting lodge), and I had to decide about a 2HF Champ's arrow. (I gave it to him.)

 

[heptat]

It's definitely a hit, at least for champion fighters. See PHB p. 72: "your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20." It's phrased the same way on the following page.

At my table it's a hit. No offence to the OP and to everyone who agrees with him, but it seems to me you're overcomplicating it. I read "critical hit" and simply think, "yeah, that's a hit".

What if it was phrased "on a 19 or 20 you hit critically"?

Peace.

 

[Iosue]

I don't agree this is a fair assumption--melee guys sometimes decide to switch out to ranged combat.

I only bring this up because I've had such a case arise in my game (IIRC it was an AC 15 gnoll hiding on the second floor of a hunting lodge), and I had to decide about a 2HF Champ's arrow. (I gave it to him.)

A little miscommunication. I read "ranged fighter" in your previous post as "fighter specializing in ranged attacks" rather than simply "fighter making a ranged attack."

I assume the fighter in your game had a Dex penalty? Because AC 15 + three quarters cover = AC 20, which is still a hit on a natural 19, given that fighters get their proficiency bonus with all weapons.

 

[delericho]

You are correct: You must score a hit in order to get the critical hit. A natural 20 always hits, but other rolls do not.

Welcome to the hobby, by the way!

I agree with the Jester on this. Only a 20 is an automatic hit. For a 19 to be a critical hit for a Champion, the roll plus modifiers must still hit the enemy's AC. If it does, then it is a critical hit. If it doesn't it's a miss, even if it falls within the crit range of the Champion.

Agreed. Phrased another way: all automatic hits are critical hits; not all critical hits are automatic hits.

Yep.

 

[dd.stevenson]

I assume the fighter in your game had a Dex penalty? Because AC 15 + three quarters cover = AC 20, which is still a hit on a natural 19, given that fighters get their proficiency bonus with all weapons.

Honestly I can't vouch for those numbers--we use roll20 to calculate the modifiers, it was a marathon session several weeks ago, and I don't game terribly sober. All I'm certain about is the situation came up, and I made a ruling.

Looking back over my notes, I believe it was a chain-mail clad leader grabbing a shield to weather the storm.

 

[pemerton]

For what it's worth, here's a 4e example:

The Paladin power "Thunder Smite" has the following wording: can score a critical hit against a marked enemy on a roll of 19–20. There are feats with similar wording.

In 4e's rules, that means that 1 roll of 19 that hits delivers a critical hit; but if the 19 misses than no hit (critical or otherwise) is delivered.

But 4e also has a rule (PHB p 278) that a natural 20 that would not hit but for the auto-hit rule does not count as a critical hit. This, together with the word "can" in the phrase "can score a critical hit", implies that if the roll of 19 would otherwise miss then no critical hit is scored.

The wording in 5e seems to be different. Whether it's different enough to entail a different outcome I will leave to others to resolve, although I'm inclined to agree with [MENTION=6680772]Iosue[/MENTION].

 

[eryndel]

From my perspective, I don't really see where the wording is ambiguous. The Improved Critical ability states "your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20". The Combat -> Critical Hit Section states: "When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra damage dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together..." I agree with some of the other posters... this seems to not jive with my expectations of the game, based off of my previous experiences, but combined with the Specific beats General rules, and relatively clear wording, this strikes me as the intention of the system.

I'd run at my table* that the champion fighter does autohit on a 19 beginning at level 3, and at 18 beginning at level 15. Frankly, champions are often complained about as weaker than the other fighter subclasses, so I don't imagine this would make the champion overpowered.

*which does not infringe on any other table's right to rule differently.

 

[77IM]

There are feats that let you take -5 to hit for +10 to damage. That's another way a 19 could theoretically miss.

FWIW, I think both interpretations are valid. Reading the section on attack rolls (p.194) and critical hits (p.196) makes it seem that the hit/miss is calculated first, and that "scoring a critical hit" modifies damage. OTOH the wording of the champion ability is pretty straightforward, so maybe I'm just holding assumptions from earlier editions.

I'd be inclined to let the 19 auto-hit because it will make the player happy, speed up the game, and matter so rarely.

 

[Thaumaturge]

I don't game terribly sober.

Huh. When I'm sober I do game terribly. Fortunately, it's a rare occurrence.

I think the people who say a roll of 19 that's a miss is a miss are probably right.

If I'm DMing, the odds are so against the party if the fighter can't hit on a 19 that I'll let the fighter have it. I've clearly decided to kill the party anyway at this point, might as well let them get a couple of licks in before they roll new characters.

Thaumaturge.

 

[charliebananas]

Hi first post...
This question came up on a thread over on RPG.NET and someone replied that when asked Mike Mearls had said that the intent was that Critical Hits are Auto-Hits, I've not got the time (new baby in the house) but if you track down the thread there may be links to back it up.

As far as I'm concerned the game is about fun, and its no fun to crit and be told you missed.

Cheers
Mike