D&D 5E Where is the point of medicine as a skill?

[Goemoe]

It is a (wis)skill to roll for stabilizing a dying. Nothing more. Nobody will ever pick this skill, because you can do the same thing without even rolling, using a 5gp healing kit (or cast a spell, use a potion etc) The number of skills is limited anyway and this one in its current form is pointless.

There might be selected occasions... yes, but no player would ever choose this skill normally. They should have just made this one a toolset thingy as they did with pick locks, use poison and such. Why adding redundant medicine?

 

[Ilbranteloth]

It is a (wis)skill to roll for stabilizing a dying. Nothing more. Nobody will ever pick this skill, because you can do the same thing without even rolling, using a 5gp healing kit (or cast a spell, use a potion etc) The number of skills is limited anyway and this one in its current form is pointless.

There might be selected occasions... yes, but no player would ever choose this skill normally. They should have just made this one a toolset thingy as they did with pick locks, use poison and such. Why adding redundant medicine?

As written, yes it's fairly pointless other than for flavor. For my daughter, this was an important skill for how she views her character.

But I've also modified the healing kit rules a bit for my campaign and it makes it more interesting:

A creature receiving the benefit of a healing kit regains hit points equal to the Medicine bonus of the healer.

If the healer is a cleric, druid or paladin, add their character level to the number of hit points restored.
If the healer has the Healer feat, then you restore double the double the hit points with a healing kit, or you can heal the same amount as with a healing kit, but with no kit required.​

Randy

 

[SilverfireSage]

As has been said in other threads of this nature (of which there are several) the medicine skill can be used more than just strictly mechanically in a fight. It can be used to diagnose a disease, do some epidemiology on a local town, figure out how someone died, figure out an antidote for a poison, figure out any anatomical questions about a creature, etc.

A lot of the threads on this board right now seem to be coming down strictly to the combat mechanics of a particular skill, which is fine, since that is the most objective measure of how a piece of the game works. But in doing so, they neglect the other two tentpoles of 5e, namely, exploration and roleplaying. I'm sure you can think of many more ways medicine is useful in both of those contexts than you can for combat.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Yeah, I have the same issue... and thus I'm trying to decide on a couple different methods to rectify the situation.

First is to leave Medicine in the game, but change Healer's Kits. Rather than those kits stabilizing automatically... instead, if you use one it allows you to roll your Wisdom (Medicine) check with Advantage. So a check is still involved, and thus the Medicine skill still has play.

Second is to remove Medicine skill from the game, and allow the use of Survival in its place for stabilization instead. Then, the Healer's Kit works just the same as it does in the book (stabilize without a check). Survival already has other uses, so adding stabilization to it on those rare occasions when Healer's Kits aren't available is nowhere near unbalancing. The only change to the game would be exchanging the Hermit background from giving Medicine to giving Survival-- but that's a simple swap.

I suspect that based on the fact that Survival in my games never seem to get enough play, nor does Medicine have enough other uses to make its inclusion worthwhile... I'm probably going to go with the latter. If there were other uses for Medicine... like requiring Wisdom (Medicine) checks to let players spend Hit Dice during Short Rests or to reduce exhaustion levels during Long Rests... maybe the skill would be a bit more worthwhile. As it stands right now though, to me it really isn't.

 

[Goemoe]

As has been said in other threads of this nature (of which there are several) the medicine skill can be used more than just strictly mechanically in a fight. It can be used to diagnose a disease, do some epidemiology on a local town, figure out how someone died, figure out an antidote for a poison, figure out any anatomical questions about a creature, etc.

A lot of the threads on this board right now seem to be coming down strictly to the combat mechanics of a particular skill, which is fine, since that is the most objective measure of how a piece of the game works. But in doing so, they neglect the other two tentpoles of 5e, namely, exploration and roleplaying. I'm sure you can think of many more ways medicine is useful in both of those contexts than you can for combat.

Try enter 'medicine' in the search engine. I did and found nothing.
For your other two tentpoles I entered the selected occasions... which is fine for me, but I want to discuss rules not fluff

As written, yes it's fairly pointless other than for flavor. For my daughter, this was an important skill for how she views her character.

But I've also modified the healing kit rules a bit for my campaign and it makes it more interesting:

A creature receiving the benefit of a healing kit regains hit points equal to the Medicine bonus of the healer.

If the healer is a cleric, druid or paladin, add their character level to the number of hit points restored.
If the healer has the Healer feat, then you restore double the double the hit points with a healing kit, or you can heal the same amount as with a healing kit, but with no kit required.​

Randy

Interesting. I tend to strip the game of medicine as a skill, create a healer background and make the healing kit a tool with a roll. Your character level of hitpoints as a use other than stabilizing a dying sounds nice. Perhaps you add those hits and if the dying still has less than 1 hp, you will have to roll to stabilize.

I will offer the tool to all classes previously offering medicine. The point here is: there are either skill or toolset functions in 5E. Mixing kit with skill does not feel right for 5E for me.

 

[SilverfireSage]

Try enter 'medicine' in the search engine. I did and found nothing.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358422-Medicine-Skill-usefulness&highlight=medicine

There's another one by Morrus that for some reason it wouldn't let me click on that talked about what you can use medicine for too.

For your other two tentpoles I entered the selected occasions... which is fine for me, but I want to discuss rules not fluff

I sincerely doubt 2/3 of the game is "fluff". Say you're trying to save a King from dying from a mysterious ailment. Medicine would tell you whether or not it's a poison, a disease, a virus, or a monster effect. What if you come upon a town that's riddled with disease, and only a medicine check will let you determine that the disease is coming from a rot that has grown on the crops, or if it is coming from the otyugh in the well. A grumpy shop keeper is telling you guys to get out, but a passive medicine check notices that he seems to be suffering from a cold, and you offer him a remedy, immediately changing his demeanor towards you.

Saying Medicine is fluff because it doesn't have any specific mechanics is like saying acrobatics is fluff, or heck, 90% of the skills are fluff. They serve a real and vital purpose in the game, and each one is useful in its own right.

 

[Goemoe]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358422-Medicine-Skill-usefulness&highlight=medicine

There's another one by Morrus that for some reason it wouldn't let me click on that talked about what you can use medicine for too.



I sincerely doubt 2/3 of the game is "fluff". Say you're trying to save a King from dying from a mysterious ailment. Medicine would tell you whether or not it's a poison, a disease, a virus, or a monster effect. What if you come upon a town that's riddled with disease, and only a medicine check will let you determine that the disease is coming from a rot that has grown on the crops, or if it is coming from the otyugh in the well. A grumpy shop keeper is telling you guys to get out, but a passive medicine check notices that he seems to be suffering from a cold, and you offer him a remedy, immediately changing his demeanor towards you.

Saying Medicine is fluff because it doesn't have any specific mechanics is like saying acrobatics is fluff, or heck, 90% of the skills are fluff. They serve a real and vital purpose in the game, and each one is useful in its own right.

I really used the search engine. It is a little weird anyway. Many times I can't click on the results, but this time I got none.

Anyway you miss my point here. When 2/3 of your D&D sessions involve sick people, medicine might be your friend. And yes, these are the selected occasions I talked of. Nothing some background stuff and the perception skill couldn't handle. I still doubt a notable number of players will ever select this and ask for the point. Most of 5Es rules make sense, are great, interesting or even funny. This skill is an exception (not only for me).

 

[SilverfireSage]

Anyway you miss my point here. When 2/3 of your D&D sessions involve sick people, medicine might be your friend. And yes, these are the selected occasions I talked of. Nothing some background stuff and the perception skill couldn't handle. I still doubt a notable number of players will ever select this and ask for the point. Most of 5Es rules make sense, are great, interesting or even funny. This skill is an exception (not only for me).

You're missing my point as well. I'm talking about the 3 tentpoles of 5e, namely, Combat, Exploration and Roleplaying (perhaps not in those specific words). Many of the rules and character options in this edition focus on only one of those, and skills typically do not even touch combat. All of the skills are situational, and many of them will not get used in an entire campaign if the characters don't want to. Yet, if a character decides that he wants his character to be like Kaladin from the Stormlight Archives (a surgeon/fighter for those that don't know) medicine would be an excellent thing to pick purely for the roleplaying purposes. Perhaps they are constantly trying to diagnose everyone they meet, are hypochondriacs who can't help but feel sick all the time, or germaphobes who see disease everywhere and always try to scrub it out.

Why stop at medicine to critique? There are so many other skills that are much more situational. Apart from someone with a horse or a druid, who is going to use Animal Handling? Why would a fighter ever pick performance? How useful would a high acrobatics check be if you never see ice/tightropes/ships?

But as with medicine, all of these have use that the players can find if they want to, simply by asking the DM. Sure, they might not have specific, hard coded uses for absolutely everything, but the point of the skill system isn't to make the best, most badass character ever. It's to make the character that you want to play, the one that you find interesting. I have a battlemaster fighter that chose proficiency in wood carver tools and cook's tools because in his downtime he uses those things to better himself like a classic samurai. Am I ever going to use those specifically? Likely not often, but the point of it was to make a character that felt real and alive, rather than a weapon that I use to bash fake monster's heads in.

 

[GameDoc]

My group tends to allow players some freedom to really role-play downtime or exploration of settlements the first time we visit. Most of us will look for ways to ply our skills to form relationships with NPCs or create a name for ourselves locally. It may be talking shop with the local artisans, using intimidation to cow local troublemakers or coerce information from underworld types, entertaining a crowd, or offering to tend the local sick and infirm.

We also tend to actively look got ways to apply our skills in exploration and combat scenarios, asking the DM (who is typically either me or my friend) if our ideas are feasible. But that's the norm for my table - the PCs are often free to evoke story elements that let them use their skills.

So, I can see lots of value in the medicine skill. I may be particularly more attuned to it having worked in the healthcare field myself. I think whatever our profession in real life, we can't have helped but contemplate how our medieval fantasy analogs would function.

But for dungeon crawls and combat heavy adventure where the spellcasters act as combat medics, the other healing and stabilization options may make it less than stellar as a choice. Especially pre-written adventure that often prescribe what skills can be used at given points and at what DC.

 

[Hawkeye]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358422-Medicine-Skill-usefulness&highlight=medicine

. Say you're trying to save a King from dying from a mysterious ailment. Medicine would tell you whether or not it's a poison, a disease, a virus, or a monster effect.

Just a nitpicky little thing. Considering that the concept of the virus wasn't really introduced into our world until the late 1800s, I don't think a medieval/renaissance level society would have that kind of concept. They would just lump all bacterial and viral infections together as disease of some kind, if not a punishment from the gods for some infraction on the part of the diseased. Otherwise, I would agree using the medicine skill this way.

Torqumada