jabelincoln
First Post
But, as we've seen with Planescape material, we are not allowed to make any changes. Every Planescape element must be preserved in its entirety throughout editions and every change is critiqued, not based on whether the change is interesting or not, but whether or not it follows what came before.
But has not the PS setting, and the creatures within changed in significant ways all along its progress? Yes, I will grant you that the Great Wheel as a concept has been basically the same since 1e's Manual of the Planes, however, inside that concept things have swung wildly. Factions have changed and altered, Landscapes have planar concepts have shifted to make them easier to traditionally adventure within (usually a mistake I believe), Modrons and others have disappeared and reappeared. Ancillary planes come in and out of existence all the time and 4e did its whole own thing. What about a monster or setting changing over editions makes it preferable to remaining static anyway? Is it that you percieve (perhaps rightly for all I know) that PS fans tantrum across the forums? How does that effect the usefulness of the monster on the page?
And i really don't understand why. Why is it perfectly fine for dragons to go from relatively small monsters with minor spell casting ability, if any spell casting ability at all, to virtual demi-gods equivalent to arch mages? But if we change a succubus from a demon to a devil, or futz about with Yugoloths, the pitchforks and torches start coming out.
See, no, there aren't alternative systems. Not in D&D. If I want different orcs, I have all sorts of inspirations I could draw on. If I want different halflings, I could use core D&D, Dragonlance, Eberron, whatever, and have everything from hobbits to cannibals to kleptomaniacs. But a Type 1 Vrock must always be a Type 1 Vrock in every single setting, in every single source book and can never, ever vary from the baseline. We must never have an adventure book featuring a demon and a devil conspiring together, because that would violate the flavour of the Blood War. Every Eladrin must be an Angel Elf and to vary from that is verboten.
THAT'S my beef here. If there were all sorts of options out there, and Planescape was one of them, I'd be a perfectly happy camper. But, if I buy a supplement about the planes, it will ALWAYS be a Planescape supplement. If I buy an adventure that features anything off the Prime Material, I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it will always follow Planescape flavour. Heck, The Savage Tide, a spin off of the Isle of Dread, followed, to the letter, Planescape elements. The last three or four modules might as well have had Planescape emblazoned across the banner. Why? These are Greyhawk (or rather Paizohawk) adventures. They certainly didn't start off as Planescape adventures. But they sure as heck ended as them.
Oh, that's right, anything to do with the planes that was published in Dungeon or Dragon in 3e HAD to follow Planescape flavour. No variation. No exceptions.
I would dispute that things always have to be Planescape, as stated previously, 4 e did not support that vision at all, and had plenty of ideas for how to turn those concepts on their ear. 5e has gotten rid of the inner plane structure of PS entirely, and kept the Feywild and Shadowfell. None of which do I like, but none of which bothers me. I'll change things as every DM does as I see fit. What I'm getting at is I still don't understand if you want to use creature stats and wrap around a completely different ascetic and narrative, why planar stuff is any different to other monsters; I still run dragons like 2e dragons and always will. If you need inspiration for what to do with your planes and you perceive that DnD doesn't provide it, theirs so much in so many other sources and we have google now, something my 13 year old self would've done, well, let's just say "things" to have. As to the references in other modules, you don't seem to be objecting to references and encounters in the planes so much as a single idea of the planes spread out through different modules. If that's correct, then what's the alternative? If they reference a new planar structure every time they have to explain it anew every time and you'll still have change most of them to fit with whatever you choose.
Cheers