D&D 5E Tome Pact is dicey

[Thank Dog]

You're making a lot of subjective claims here without backing most of them up, and you sound more than a little hyperbolic/optimizey. Why exactly are chain-locks "piss-weak"? Does "piss-weak" mean they're broken-underpowered, or do you mean that tome-locks are broken-overpowered by comparison?

Just a heads-up before you respond: If you think something is actually broken, please say so, and say why. If you just think you'd never choose to play one because you find them underpowered, then, with respect, please don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Actually, I am playing both a chain-lock and a blade-lock.

But in purely mechanical terms, the pact-lock has the biggest bang for the buck. Familiars just aren't very powerful. Handy, but then again their primary use would be in scouting which merely takes away from the PC's who would prefer to do it themselves. The pact familiars are a bit better with their powers but even then, putting them in combat is a sure way to get them killed. Not a major hassle but it still means in terms of power, they're just not that great.

The melee-lock is ok in terms of power but, as I said, being in melee means sacrificing your most powerful attack, that being Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast. It also means taking two invocations across 12 levels in order to give it enough power to be decent.

I was merely disputing that the tome pact was bad. Just because the power of when and where and what rituals you come across is in the hands of the DM, does not mean it's a bad pact. Even without getting extra rituals, the fact that you get three extra cantrips from ANY class and can use one of your first invocations to get two 1st-level rituals from ANY class, makes it far and away the best optimal choice from a purely mechanical advantage perspective. That this advantage can be increased is merely icing on the cake.

 

[Joe Liker]

I was merely disputing that the tome pact was bad. Just because the power of when and where and what rituals you come across is in the hands of the DM, does not mean it's a bad pact. Even without getting extra rituals, the fact that you get three extra cantrips from ANY class and can use one of your first invocations to get two 1st-level rituals from ANY class, makes it far and away the best optimal choice from a purely mechanical advantage perspective. That this advantage can be increased is merely icing on the cake.

I never claimed tome pact was "bad." I only pointed out that a lot of its utility and development would be out of the player's hands.

I'm not sure why you think extra cantrips are such a big deal. You already have the best attack cantrip in the game for use with hex. Don't get me wrong -- I like the flavor and utility you can find in the others, but I wouldn't call them "powerful." The best ones interfere with hex because of concentration conflicts, and most of the rest are extremely situational or just plain fluffy.

Apart from that, you can get access to rituals with a feat. Not with the breadth a tome pact gets you, but it seems to me you can have your cake AND your pie AND eat it all by going blade pact, picking up the Ritual Casting feat, and choosing find familiar as your first ritual.

Oh, and you don't "give up" eldritch blast just because you have a melee option. It can be very useful to be able to do both, even if you don't fully optimize the blast.

 

[Thank Dog]

I'm not sure why you think extra cantrips are such a big deal.

Cantrips from any class. That opens up Guidance, the best utility cantrip in the game, and Shillelagh, which on balance is better than Blade Pact, and Vicious Mockery which is considered an excellent control cantrip. And it's not just about "power", it's about versatility. It's three extra cantrips, spells that can be cast wherever, whenever, which for a class that has extremely limited spell slots is really quite an excellent benefit, especially when compared to the benefits of the other pacts.

Not with the breadth a tome pact gets you, but it seems to me you can have your cake AND your pie AND eat it all by going blade pact, picking up the Ritual Casting feat, and choosing find familiar as your first ritual.

It's a class with only five feats/ability score bumps. Those tend to be needed for other things. The find familiar spell also doesn't give you a boosted familiar which, quite frankly, is the only reason to go chain pact at all. Not to mention the fact that with such limited spell slots, you really want to focus on the versatility of your spell selection and using a known spell slot for find familiar is a waste.

Oh, and you don't "give up" eldritch blast just because you have a melee option. It can be very useful to be able to do both, even if you don't fully optimize the blast.

Sure, by all means, attack with disadvantage.

 

[Joe Liker]

Cantrips from any class. That opens up Guidance, the best utility cantrip in the game, and Shillelagh, which on balance is better than Blade Pact, and Vicious Mockery which is considered an excellent control cantrip. And it's not just about "power", it's about versatility. It's three extra cantrips, spells that can be cast wherever, whenever, which for a class that has extremely limited spell slots is really quite an excellent benefit, especially when compared to the benefits of the other pacts.

As I implied, guidance and resistance both conflict with hex because they use concentration, so those are not that great for warlocks.

I'm not sure how you think shillelagh beats Blade Pact -- it's 1d8 damage versus literally any melee weapon in the game. Yes, you have to split your stats if you use Blade Pact, but that's hardly the end of the world. And shillelagh cannot benefit from Blade Pact invocations.

It's a class with only five feats/ability score bumps. Those tend to be needed for other things. The find familiar spell also doesn't give you a boosted familiar which, quite frankly, is the only reason to go chain pact at all. Not to mention the fact that with such limited spell slots, you really want to focus on the versatility of your spell selection and using a known spell slot for find familiar is a waste.

The Ritual Casting feat lets you collect rituals without having them count as "known spells," and it gives you your first two rituals for free.

The so-called boost from the Chain Pact is not nearly as important as having the familiar itself. Short-range scouting and delivery of touch attacks are things you might use a lot. Long-range scouting? Not so much. Using your action to let the familiar attack? Next to useless.

Sure, by all means, attack with disadvantage.

Obviously, you would not use a ranged spell in melee. But there are plenty of reasons to have a ranged attack available. Flying enemies, distant enemies using ranged attacks, etc.