How do you feel about nudity in RPG books?

[Nergal Pendragon]

So, you are telling me that, once you set a pixel to a color, you don't change it? You never change the size or shape of a room after you first draw it? You do no touch ups to anything as you go along? Unless you never make *any* changes to *anything* once you put it in place, you are engaged in editing as you go.

If you do try to tell me that... I disbelieve.

I do it and don't change anything once it's on the paper.

But, then, I'm drawing on graph paper using a pencil and referencing a set of references for quick generation of an area, and what I produce definitely is not art

 

[Bedrockgames]

What's the game and why is the nudity there?
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It is an odd niche game set in an afterlife world where the players are brownies. The nudity comes in with an illustration we are considering for the goddess of the setting.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'm not worried about the dirty looks and angry moms. I'm worried about exactly how terrible you can make handling sensitive issues badly. I've read precisely one tabletop RPG that handles sex as a plot element well (Monsterhearts), with most games being about as effective as a group of teenagers trying to be edgy and spurring each other on. For dangerous art that fulfils its potential, RPGs can be great excercises in empathy, and I invite people to look at Monsterhearts (coming of age stories) and Dog Eat Dog (colonialism) for starters. But you don't get that in an attempt to be edgy; that almost always merely ends up at the puerile. You get there by having something you are driven to say. And then if you attempt to go edgy beyond your point you merely add distractions that hide your central point. And as [MENTION=177]Umbran[/MENTION] pointed out, The Mona Lisa isn't dangerous. But it's great art.

I don't think this is about being dangerous or edgy. Mona Lisa is a great example of art that is effective without nudity, but what about Circe Offering the Cup to Ulysses? (by John Waterhouse) It isn't pornographic but it has some hints of nudity in it and arguably the nudity makes the image work. The image I am dealing with now, is sort of in that category.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

I don't think this is about being dangerous or edgy. Mona Lisa is a great example of art that is effective without nudity, but what about Circe Offering the Cup to Ulysses? (by John Waterhouse) It isn't pornographic but it has some hints of nudity in it and arguably the nudity makes the image work. The image I am dealing with now, is sort of in that category.

Technically, it wasn't dangerous or edgy at the time; it was following an established art style. The hints of nudity also worked in that case because of the subject matter being dealt with.

Which doesn't mean the nudity you are going for is a bad idea; done right, it serves the subject matter you are dealing with. So, the art in this question serves a purpose; it helps establish a characteristic of the divine in question.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It is an odd niche game set in an afterlife world where the players are brownies. The nudity comes in with an illustration we are considering for the goddess of the setting.

I don't think this is about being dangerous or edgy. Mona Lisa is a great example of art that is effective without nudity, but what about Circe Offering the Cup to Ulysses? (by John Waterhouse) It isn't pornographic but it has some hints of nudity in it and arguably the nudity makes the image work. The image I am dealing with now, is sort of in that category.

Then I'd say less is more. That hints of nudity with screening objects will work far better than anything explicit. (And no, less is more doesn't mean fewer clothes the better).

 

[gamerprinter]

So, you are telling me that, once you set a pixel to a color, you don't change it? You never change the size or shape of a room after you first draw it? You do no touch ups to anything as you go along? Unless you never make *any* changes to *anything* once you put it in place, you are engaged in editing as you go.


If you do try to tell me that... I disbelieve.

Well I use vector software, so there are no pixels until I export the image to bitmap format. An existing grid of points lay on the blank drawing space, and since I primarily design at 1 inch = 5 foot scale for encounter maps, as I draw a room, I can visibly see what size it is as I create - if I want to create a 20' x 50' space, its easily done. I do create in stages where initially all interior spaces are connected series of rectangles and other shapes, then I combine all objects as a single object. Next I create an exterior space that encompasses all the interior space with space for walls. I place this below the interior structure shape, then combine both shapes subtracting the interior space from the exterior shape and the entire structure is created. I apply a stone, dirt or whatever appropriate image fill into the shape, apply bevels and shadows and an entire castle, temple or other building is created.

I literally do not ever go back and "correct things". If I thought I could do the gatehouse better (for example), I would not, rather I would do a better gatehouse on the next map I create a castle. My primary goal in creating maps is to get it done in a reasonable amount of time. I know many cartographers that spend days and days, even weeks to complete a map. Only with the most complex maps do I spend more than one day in its creation - like the hand-drawn map of the City of Kasai for the Jade Regent AP for Paizo with 8500 buildings which took me 4 days to create. Because I get so much created in such a short amount of time, if I took the extra steps of going back and correcting this or that, I'd never finish in a timely manner. As stated above on my previous post I generally create maps in one sitting of 4 to 6 hours from start to finish.

Consider my most recent map, a bronze age village with ringed hillforts, henge circle, barrow down and a trackway across the countryside. While I have a grid to work with, all this work was eyeballed for scale. The map took me 5 hours to create from start to finish. I created the hillfort first. After I created the henge circle, I eyeballed the roundhouses on the hillfort to scale appropriately to the henge circle which I used as my "scaling agent".

Consider that I create hundreds of maps each year. I don't map everyday, but nearly so. You're free not to believe me, but I'm speaking truth here. Its not that I am that good (although I am quite good), its that I'm unwilling to go back and undo anything already created - I'm stubborn that way.

 

[Samloyal23]

While I completely agree that D&D while creative is not art unto itself, I will say, that all of the maps I design for RPGs can certainly qualify as art, and in most cases I create the entire maps in one sitting, with no rehearsal, revisions, nor editing - not even for publisher commissions. My maps tend to be skilled one-offs in every case.

You are playing a role, which is acting. Every game is an exercise in improvisational theatre mediated by the random factors built into the system being played. You are playing a game of Make Believe with a conflict resolution system added to it. How is that NOT art?

 

[gamerprinter]

Because even playing the game, between the bits of acting and storytelling, there is dice throwing, rules checking, meta-gaming. It is certainly a creative activity with bits off actual art included, but for the most part it is a social activity, that will never have an audience except for the participants alone. There are artistic aspects, but in of itself, it is not art and will never be viewed by anyone outside the activity.

There have been many threads on ENWorld across the years that specifically touch on this subject (and which I've participated) - just search for "Is D&D Art", you'll find many threads discussing just that.

 

[Celebrim]

It is an odd niche game set in an afterlife world where the players are brownies. The nudity comes in with an illustration we are considering for the goddess of the setting.

That's a bit odd. Generally speaking, I'd say this is an example where nudity is probably appropriate and won't raise too many eye brows, especially if the image is not eroticized but more in the mode of a classic nude. If it looks like something in an art gallery, and its depicting something mythical rather than an aspect of play, and the fact that you are playing brownies isn't meant to indicate a target audience of 10 year olds (and so you aren't relying on parents for the purchasing), and you like the piece in question, I'd say go for it.

 

[Jhaelen]

I don't mind it if makes thematic sense. E.g. in "The Dark Eye" player's handbook, in the races chapter, the different human ethnicities are depicted in their traditional garments. For some of them that means they're shown bare-breasted. I actually like that since it enforces a look that's reminiscent of 20th century anthropological books.