AD&D; Are 1st and 2nd Edition the Same?

[FormerlyHemlock]

I never really thought about it that much when I played and ran 2E, but now THAC0 bothers me not because of the numbers but because why should my "to hit" number be based on a specific Armor Class?

Your "to hit" number is always based on a specific armor class. AC 0 is simply a mathematically convenient reference point which makes calculations for other ACs easy.

 

[billd91]

Your "to hit" number is always based on a specific armor class. AC 0 is simply a mathematically convenient reference point which makes calculations for other ACs easy.

Indeed. It's also useful to note that the THAC0 construction allowed the game to get off the attack matrix tables that 1e combat was based on. Rather than check the table, you just needed a mathematic calculation to determine whether or not you hit. 3e, of course, made that even easier by turning AC ratings around.

 

[billd91]

While I loved 2E, one thing that 1E did better was the Monster Manuals. Those horrible, binder-based Monster Compendiums were awful. While it was nice to have a full page devoted to the monster and a lot of information about them, and it was awesome to be able to buy add-ons of world specific monsters, the binders themselves were garbage and made dealing with them a pain after a while.

So, even though they revised the monsters the right way, they packaged them all wrong. In the end, I was glad they went back to hardcover Monster Manual style books.

It was a bold experiment based on a useful idea - having a set of monsters that can be pulled out of the book and grouped for easier reference for a particular adventure as well as being able to integrate the entire monster list into a single binder. Trouble was, it had practical weaknesses including fragile hole punches leading to torn out pages and monsters being printed on both sides (something I don't think was in the original plan) messing up the whole point of the format.

 

[juboke]

I saw 2E as a cleaned-up version of the 1E rules. The flavor wasn't as good, but the mechanics were the same, just presented in a more intuitive form.

Pretty much this!

 

[Voadam]

Mostly things were compatible. I used Basic, 1e and 2e AD&D modules, magic items, and monsters fairly interchangeably. I allowed 1e assassins and Unearthed Arcana races in my campaign even after we switched to 2e.

There were lots of little mechanical differences between 1e and 2e though. Initiative was different. Class details were different along with level limits and stat generation and some spell details. Giants and dragons were significantly upgraded in hp and damage inflicted. Magic resistance was different. Monsters got a flat amount of xp in 2e instead of a base amount plus a small amount per hit point in 1e and nobobdy but rogues got xp for loot.

 

[Storminator]

Thaco had the extra problem that it removed the repeat 20s at the top of the chart. Using tables allowed finer control of the probabilities than a formula.

 

[Prince Atom]

Monsters got a flat amount of xp in 2e instead of a base amount plus a small amount per hit point in 1e and nobobdy but rogues got xp for loot.

I haven't made an exhaustive comparison, also I don't have my books with me, but it was my impression that 2E gave more XP for monsters.

XP for loot was an optional rule; the DMG warned that it could lead to giving out too much treasure. It also talked about different ratios of XP to GP.

IIRC, The Night Below used XP for GP at a 1:1 basis.

 

[Voadam]

I haven't made an exhaustive comparison, also I don't have my books with me, but it was my impression that 2E gave more XP for monsters.

XP for loot was an optional rule; the DMG warned that it could lead to giving out too much treasure. It also talked about different ratios of XP to GP.

IIRC, The Night Below used XP for GP at a 1:1 basis.

Yeah, it was significantly more as it was the assumed base amount as opposed to 1e's xp for monsters, gold, and magic loot.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

IIRC, The Night Below used XP for GP at a 1:1 basis.

But during large stretches of Night Below the PCs couldn't easily get back to the surface and spend/store their gains. And hauling around bulging sacks with gold pieces only leads you so far.

 

[Zhaleskra]

Your "to hit" number is always based on a specific armor class. AC 0 is simply a mathematically convenient reference point which makes calculations for other ACs easy.

I think that's where some people had the disconnect: If I need number X to hit AC 0, I need X-AC(Y) to hit AC Y.

The more I think about it, the more I realize I actually have more problems with 2E than I thought I did. Plusses that are actually minuses, for example.