D&D 5E Stealthy Spellcasting in 5e

[Zinnger]

While I do not agree that Subtle Spell allows casting with no spell material components, "... cast it without any somatic or verbal components." I do agree that ONLY this skill/ability allows the casting of a spell without being noticed. If not, what fool would ever select Subtle Spell as one of their limited options of Metamagic? Just do it the same way that all other casters are allowed to sneak a spell off.

The language seems pretty clear to me that the verbal must be spoken or "chanted". RAW states very clearly that it is to be spoken with certain combinations of sounds and with "SPECIFIC PITCH". If you whisper you have changed the pitch and therefore the magic will not operate. (pitch is defined as - to cause to be at a particular level) Change the level of pitch and take away the function of the magic.

Somatic could be "forceful gesticulation" which is not something easily hidden from any who can see you. Even if the person is not looking your way if you start swinging your arms like your conducting an orchestra people are going to look at you. Intricate gestures could be compared to the detailed specifics of writing. One small change makes an F become an E. The intricate spellings of words matter and must be concentrated on and so does the casting of a spell that requires specific intricate movement.

Again, only the sorcerer with the Metamagic should be allowed to do this. But this does not mean that a bard could not move a safe distance away to cast and then return. But the use of magic in most worlds is common enough that people have seen others casting spells and know what it looks like. You would have to find a way to completely shield yourself from view and hearing to secretly cast without the Metamagic ability of the sorcerer. If a GM wants to change what I feel is clearly RAW they could add a feat or something but there is nothing else indicated in the rules that would allow a secret casting.

 

[MoonSong]

Huh. I will re-read those classes tonight. I don't recall stealth casting to be niche for Sorcerers, but it's not in my brain at the moment. I also didn't get the impression niche stuff was taken. This reads more like a personal preference and maybe even "beef" with 5e? When someone uses the phrase "they have very few toys to play with" I get the feeling your priorities with system are probably different than mine. These are not toys, they are the way the character engages with the world of make-believe (WOMB). Thus far, I have not seen an issue in play.

Sorcerers are the only class allowed by raw to cast without noise and gestures, that's why it is their niche. And I say toys because my approach to magic is seeing magic as fun, as a chance to deviate from what is mundane or expected. Not as ultimate power, nor as a way to cause random destruction. Though in a way my only beef at 5e is the sorcerer class didn't get enough love, and it seems to rank so low in the designer's priorities, coupled with the added pressure from the bard and wizard classes, the class has very little going for it.

While I do not agree that Subtle Spell allows casting with no spell material components, "... cast it without any somatic or verbal components." I do agree that ONLY this skill/ability allows the casting of a spell without being noticed. If not, what fool would ever select Subtle Spell as one of their limited options of Metamagic? Just do it the same way that all other casters are allowed to sneak a spell off.

My bad, sorry, just re-read the entry, subtle spell indeed only works for somatic and verbal components. I don't know why I thought that. And I don't know and I understand that each DM has the right to run their game however they want, but I seem to remember that class features had to have priority over anything else, making a feat/skill option that allowed any caster to cast in secrecy would infringe into the sorcerer niche, and as I said, it is a thin niche.

 

[Uller]

While I do not agree that Subtle Spell allows casting with no spell material components, "... cast it without any somatic or verbal components." I do agree that ONLY this skill/ability allows the casting of a spell without being noticed. If not, what fool would ever select Subtle Spell as one of their limited options of Metamagic?

A fool that wants to be able to cast a spell while silenced or restrained? Or one thta doesnt want to have to waste a pescious skill on performance, deception, sleight of hand or stealth. One that would prefer a 100% chance vs some chance of being noticed? Just a few examples off the top of my head.

If the Arcane Trickster player in my group wanted to use a skill to hide the casting of a spell and role played it well it would go against every fiber of my DM being to say "you cant because if you wanted to do that you should have become a sorcerer and taken subtle spell. It is he ONLY way." She'd be pissed and rightly so.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I think what I'll end up doing is saying that the chanting of the words and intricate gestures can't be disguised, but you can attempt to turn your back and chant quietly until the final moments of the spell, allowing some sort of check to pull it out without being noticed. I kind of like the image of an ally distracting the person you are talking with while you turn your back for a few seconds and quietly cast the spell, turning back around as you finish the final gesture towards them.

On the other hand, for spells like suggestion it kind of seems like the very reason it lacks a somatic component is so that you can cast it surreptitiously--it seems like part of the design of the spell itself.

So I might make exceptions for spells that actually seem like they are thematically designed for casting on someone face to face. In the case of suggestion, for example, I'd say you don't chant, but rather have to speak in such a way as to weave the correct pitch, resonance, and maybe cadence into at least part of the sentence. Someone familiar with the spell might be able to make an Intelligence (Arcana) check to notice what you are doing.

Material components and somatic components are not the same thing, so I'd say you can simply reach your hand into a pocket and touch the material component if it doesn't also specific a somatic component.

 

[steeldragons]

It does seems reasonable that for spells with specific gp cost material components would not be available to cast subtle/surreptitiously.

 

[keterys]

I find it interesting that a sorcerer - this edition's version of the war mage - is the only one who can cast things subtly, because he's the only one who has any mechanics describing how to do so at all, rather than the arcane trickster, illusionist, or fey warlock.

Back to the problem with having rules for ways to do things preventing you from doing them any other way, I guess.

 

[MoonSong]

I find it interesting that a sorcerer - this edition's version of the war mage - is the only one who can cast things subtly, because he's the only one who has any mechanics describing how to do so at all, rather than the arcane trickster, illusionist, or fey warlock.

Back to the problem with having rules for ways to do things preventing you from doing them any other way, I guess.

I don't consider the sorcerer 5e's version of the warmage, it just has too many combat spells and not enough long lasting ones, the class is about being flexible with magic, which has gone back to being not as easy as it used to be, and it does it well, it just lacks the concept versatility it used to have.

But the design principles mark the primacy of class features, I don't remember exactly in which L&L they explained it, but if I remember clearly the priority was class-skills-feats-spells. So anything you could do with feats and skills has to be strictly worse than subtle spell, and be able to sit on top of subtle spell to allow sorcerers this primacy.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Read again, subtle spell removes all components, not only verbal and somatic ones. The only unavoidable ones are the costly ones, but I don't think a sorcerer would ever learn one spell which burned money on each casting, it goes counter flavor. The only costly spell I would learn as sorcerer would be chromatic orb, but that one is not subtle at all.

I believe you're mistaken. Subtle Spell says "to cast it without any somatic or verbal components". If you have a focus in hand, that can substitute for non-cost material components, but drawing your focus might be telling in itself.

As an aside, material components are only consumed if the spell specifically says they are (PHB 203 under Material). So chromatic orb only has a one time cost of 50 gp (unless the diamond is stolen or lost).

EDIT:
Didn't see the responses on the next page where this was already covered. Sorry, I didn't mean to beat a dead horse.

Regarding feats being allowed to mimic the features of other classes, these options already exist in the form of Magic Initiate and Martial Adept. So I don't think it would be unprecedented to create a feat that functions as a lesser version of Subtle Spell, or even a feat that gives you Subtle Spell and perhaps 2 sorcery points to use it.

 

[Kalshane]

Regarding feats being allowed to mimic the features of other classes, these options already exist in the form of Magic Initiate and Martial Adept. So I don't think it would be unprecedented to create a feat that functions as a lesser version of Subtle Spell, or even a feat that gives you Subtle Spell and perhaps 2 sorcery points to use it.

I would agree. Either a "Metamagic Adept Feat" (Gain the ability to use one form of Metamagic and two Sorcery points) or a Disguised Spellcaster feat that gives you the ability to hide your spellcasting by making an appropriate skill check for the situation/method would probably be the way to go. Maybe give it a secondary bonus of some kind, whether a +1 ability score boost to your casting stat or some other nifty ability that relates to being sneaky and casting spells.

 

[MoonSong]

I would agree. Either a "Metamagic Adept Feat" (Gain the ability to use one form of Metamagic and two Sorcery points) or a Disguised Spellcaster feat that gives you the ability to hide your spellcasting by making an appropriate skill check for the situation/method would probably be the way to go. Maybe give it a secondary bonus of some kind, whether a +1 ability score boost to your casting stat or some other nifty ability that relates to being sneaky and casting spells.

Metamagic Adept
Prerrequisites: Cha 13, the ability to cast at least 1 spell
You learn one Metamagic option of your choice among those available to the sorcerer class, if you have the Font of Magic class feature, increase your maximum sorcery points by two, otherwise you gain two sorcery points to activate the metamagic option. You regain those metamagic points on a long rest.