D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

[mflayermonk]

5e is much closer to being an OSR game... nor the flood of OSR d20 games (3pp OSR d20 supplements, sure).

I wanted to add 5e has driven me back to the OSR stuff. There is tons of great content out there for the OSR stuff created by 3rd party people as well.

Originally, I was adapting the OSR stuff, but now I am just moving into the OSR rules sets.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I disagree about the lofty goals but to a certain extent. I think they are looking for D&D to go to a whole new level but not the actual game itself. They believe the brand can take them to new heights but I believe it won't and the game is going to suffer for it.

I've heard that theory, and they do seem to be putting out satellite products. There's another version of the board games in the pipeline, and 'attack wing' or whatever that one is. Trying to find somewhere else to leverage the IP, since the RPG fanbase has proven a dead end as far as growth is concerned, I guess.

Still, not as depressing as it sounds as there are real advantages to the fans in having a slower pace of releases. Systems like D&D just run better the less they've been crammed with. It lets us play through one set of options back to front before being bombarded with the next. That kinda thing. There's a silver lining.

 

[BryonD]

there are real advantages to the fans in having a slower pace of releases.

This remains to be seen. Afterall, you are posting in an "interest is waning" thread very soon after the release.
There is no doubt that there is a solid fanbase that agrees with you. And it would be stupid for me or anyone else to dispute that.
But, we have also seen what happens when WotC fails to cast a wide enough net.

Systems like D&D just run better the less they've been crammed with. It lets us play through one set of options back to front before being bombarded with the next. That kinda thing. There's a silver lining.

Obviously this depends greatly upon the group in question.

You say "crammed"; I say "enriched". You say "bombarded"; I say "Hey Pathfinder's new thing looks cool and that's still a great game too. I'll go play that."

 

[Manchu]

My impression is WotC doesn't care very much about D&D as a RPG. The 5E core books are very strong IMO but ... are they just a place holder for a licensing-focused approach to the property? "Okay, we have these books in print, let's sell some licenses ... now back to Magic." I can imagine that, and I hope that, this impression is totally mistaken. But ... well, how could we know? In the past, I felt like there was a very steady stream of communication between the D&D designers and us customers ... even during the long period that D&D was effectively OOP between 4E and 5E. Given WizKids is doing the Elemental Evil boardgame and Sasquatch is doing Princes of the Apocalypse ... what's happening with Mearls and his people? Not saying they are doing nothing ... just wonder what.

 

[Hussar]

This remains to be seen. Afterall, you are posting in an "interest is waning" thread very soon after the release.
There is no doubt that there is a solid fanbase that agrees with you. And it would be stupid for me or anyone else to dispute that.
But, we have also seen what happens when WotC fails to cast a wide enough net.


Obviously this depends greatly upon the group in question.

You say "crammed"; I say "enriched". You say "bombarded"; I say "Hey Pathfinder's new thing looks cool and that's still a great game too. I'll go play that."

On the flip side, I look at Pathfinder and the mountain of material, and there's just no way I'd even consider getting into Pathfinder now. I used to be a pretty consistent Paizo consumer - Dungeon, Dragon, a few modules and whatnot here and there. Great material. But, jeez, they just released their what, nineteenth AP? There's just no way I'd even consider Pathfinder as my game of choice now. The same thing, for me, goes for Forgotten Realms. Thousands of pages of material? No thanks. If they rebooted the setting, I'd probably jump at it, but, as it stands? No thanks.

 

[Manchu]

I feel you Hussar. But rather than rebooting the setting, how about just publishing a comprehensive campaign guide written for DMs new to the Realms. I am in no way new to the Realms but I haven't been paying attention for a while. I bought Elminster's Guide, the hardback release not so long ago, and find that it is a bit too "up close" or "in universe" for this purpose.

 

[BryonD]

On the flip side, I look at Pathfinder and the mountain of material, and there's just no way I'd even consider getting into Pathfinder now. I used to be a pretty consistent Paizo consumer - Dungeon, Dragon, a few modules and whatnot here and there. Great material. But, jeez, they just released their what, nineteenth AP? There's just no way I'd even consider Pathfinder as my game of choice now. The same thing, for me, goes for Forgotten Realms. Thousands of pages of material? No thanks. If they rebooted the setting, I'd probably jump at it, but, as it stands? No thanks.

Sure

And there are people who won't go Pathfinder because of Pathfinder.

It seems clear that no system is going to appeal to everyone and you can find reasonable stones to throw at anything.

So the relevant question is not "will someone find a reason to dislike this?", the relevant question is "How do we get a lot of people to like this for as long as possible?".
I think Paizo has demonstrated that quite well.
Again, by the number that you personally quoted, Pathfinder's 6-year-and-going existence blows away both 3E and 4E. So it is a model of success.
Pretty much everyone who didn't like 3E, doesn't like Pathfinder.
I know a lot of people who very much liked 3E and yet don't like Pathfinder.
It is easy to find people who don't like Pathfinder.
It is hard to find a game with a better template of success in the modern market.
Clearly these two things are not directly related.

And by the same token, it can't be said that PF's huge output is a reason for its success. It may be a big help, it may not. But it can certainly be said that it has not stopped it from being a huge success.


All that aside, I'd find it strange to see APs as a barrier to entry. You buy the ones that you find interesting and ignore the rest (with zero being a completely valid response). Same for all of the Golarion stuff. Just don't buy it.
The actual core game release schedule has been rather modest.

GURPS is, literally, built upon its splat books. To me personally, that is all the better. But I can see how that may turn others away. But if you see the same barrier for Pathfinder then you are not looking at it clearly.

 

[BryonD]

On the flip side, I look at Pathfinder and the mountain of material, and ...

And it is probably worth pointing out that I could have said GURPS or anything else here in place of Pathfinder. Clearly to me Pathfinder is the leading contender. But the point I was making was regarding staying at the top of the pack in a crowded, dynamic and competitive market, which caters to a short attention span audience.

 

[BryonD]

I feel you Hussar. But rather than rebooting the setting, how about just publishing a comprehensive campaign guide written for DMs new to the Realms. I am in no way new to the Realms but I haven't been paying attention for a while. I bought Elminster's Guide, the hardback release not so long ago, and find that it is a bit too "up close" or "in universe" for this purpose.

This I can agree with. If you are interested in the setting itself.
Though I still think you buy the existing core and just the parts your want, ignoring everything else.

I spent most of 3E playing homebrews and I've been playing Golarion through the Pathfinder period. My memory of the Realms doesn't go beyond Eliminster is too strong, Drizzt is emo, Waterdeep is on the left of the map.

I wouldn't consider trying to become an expert of FR. but I could start running a game in it no problem. Buying a "summary" product would be cool. But just buying an old core would work.

 

[chriton227]

GURPS is, literally, built upon its splat books. To me personally, that is all the better. But I can see how that may turn others away. But if you see the same barrier for Pathfinder then you are not looking at it clearly.

Yes, but GURPS approach to splatbooks is very different from how 3e, 4e, and Pathfinder do it. GURPS splatbooks are very focused on a particular theme or setting, and any given campaign would only use a select few. For example, a Car Wars campaign would use the core book, Autoduel and Vehicles, but not Psionics, Space, Supers, Low-Tech, Fantasy, etc. This limits how much info there is for the players or GMs to digest for a particular campaign, and presents fewer opportunities for broken combos by picking material from different books. 3e, 4e, and PF on the other hand run more of a kitchen sink approach, where almost all of the splatbooks are designed to apply to the base setting, so in 4e for example you have to worry about interactions between the PHB, PHB2, PHB3, Martial Power, Martial Power 2, Divine Power, Arcane Power, Psionic Power, Primal Power, Adventurers' Vault, and Adventurers' Vault 2, not to mention the specific race books, setting player guides, and player options introduced by GM targeted books like the Demonomicon and the Manual of the Planes.