D&D 5E Are hardback AP's a waste?

[billd91]

Durability is good for corebooks and books that you will continue to use on a daily basis. What happens when you finish that hardback AP? It doesn't need to be durable unless you are a book collector.

You ever see a softcover volume of an AP after substantial use? My volumes of Council of Thieves suffered a lot of wear, particularly the ones with the most source material useful for multiple chapters. And my Shackled City hardcover, in a paper form, would probably never have survived that campaign.

 

[Sailor Moon]

You ever see a softcover volume of an AP after substantial use? My volumes of Council of Thieves suffered a lot of wear, particularly the ones with the most source material useful for multiple chapters. And my Shackled City hardcover, in a paper form, would probably never have survived that campaign.

But would you need to use them again?

 

[billd91]

But would you need to use them again?

I might. I've used several modules I've owned from 30 years ago fairly recently. It depends on the groups I'm playing with. I've run some adventures multiple times over the years (Ravenloft, in particular, 3 times).

 

[Jester David]

I ran Red Hand of a Doom once and might run it again while updated to 5e. It'll be in pretty rough shape when that's done.
And I woul totally run Rise of the Runelords again. And might if I ever end up with a second group.

 

[Henry]

I feel like you may have a few misconceptions regarding the costs of PDFs, sailor moon. First of all, selling a copy of a pdf does not mean, "zero costs". There's all the costs you would have had to incur regardless of medium - writing, development, editing, art, and layout; further, electronic distribution incurs site hosting fees and tech support fees (two separate things, even if you're paying e same company for them). So there's a fixed overhead that has a cost.

Then there's the diminishing returns - you suggest selling an adventure for 3 bucks, and a whole AP for 5 and suggesting they'd sell enough to make up for a product they used to sell for 30 or 40? What if your alleged eightfold or tenfold sales increase is only a twofold or threefold sales increase?

Worse, what if it sells LESS? If they drop their print distribution network, and don't get their prodcut in store shelves to be seen, what makes you think they would sell just as much or more? Lower visibility means less eyes actively searching for ways to buy product, as well as losing any and all customers who exclusively prefer print products? That's not me (I own ten times as much Paizo pdfs as printed materials) but i have no illusions about being a typical buyer. Everyone besides me at our table uses honest to goodness paper books - even the people using digital character records are using print books when doing character advancement. I really dont think WotC's customer base is much different on that score. PDF copy costs might be lower, but it's not "zero" - not low enough in opportunity costs and missed sales for WotC to drop all physical print and go e-book only.

 

[S'mon]

I like my 300 page hardback Rise of the Runelords a lot. Also my similar-sized Lost City of Barakus harback - I used it for nearly two years and a softback might have fallen apart.
But WoTC 96 page adventure hardbacks are silly, yes - those should be done softback, for ease of carry as much as the cost.

 

[Uchawi]

One of the intents of 5E was going the nostalgic route for the feel of D&D, so in that sense they should release the old school format for adventures with the cover having maps on the other side, and pull out pages for the adventures. I was never sold, or found any value as a customer when buying a hard cover adventure. Overall, hard cover adventures are a bigger investment, but adventures products overall have more of an appearance of being disposable for a DM. The memory and experience of a good adventure is more important than it being hard bound for all eternity.

 

[Sailor Moon]

I feel like you may have a few misconceptions regarding the costs of PDFs, sailor moon. First of all, selling a copy of a pdf does not mean, "zero costs". There's all the costs you would have had to incur regardless of medium - writing, development, editing, art, and layout; further, electronic distribution incurs site hosting fees and tech support fees (two separate things, even if you're paying e same company for them). So there's a fixed overhead that has a cost.

Then there's the diminishing returns - you suggest selling an adventure for 3 bucks, and a whole AP for 5 and suggesting they'd sell enough to make up for a product they used to sell for 30 or 40? What if your alleged eightfold or tenfold sales increase is only a twofold or threefold sales increase?

Worse, what if it sells LESS? If they drop their print distribution network, and don't get their prodcut in store shelves to be seen, what makes you think they would sell just as much or more? Lower visibility means less eyes actively searching for ways to buy product, as well as losing any and all customers who exclusively prefer print products? That's not me (I own ten times as much Paizo pdfs as printed materials) but i have no illusions about being a typical buyer. Everyone besides me at our table uses honest to goodness paper books - even the people using digital character records are using print books when doing character advancement. I really dont think WotC's customer base is much different on that score. PDF copy costs might be lower, but it's not "zero" - not low enough in opportunity costs and missed sales for WotC to drop all physical print and go e-book only.

I'm fully aware of having to pay your writers etc.... But with physical books you are having to pay printing and shipping costs on top of what you have to pay the writers etc... With PDFs you just copy on a PC send them out for free.

 

[DEFCON 1]

But see... the real point is not to get product out there on the market as cheaply as possible. As a matter of fact... it's to get product out on the market as expensive as possible that people are still willing to pay for.

That's the sweet spot you look for... the delicate pivot point that is going to bring in the most money while still getting most people to buy it. That's why the D&D core books were $50... because they knew they could charge $10 to $15 more than other company's books for the same page count because players were going to be willing to spend that extra cash for the D&D name. By the same token... they charge larger prices for official D&D adventures than what indy one-or-two person companies charge for adventures because they KNOW players want the "official" stuff.

Hell... we have huge threads right here on the boards (some of them started by yourself) complaining about the fact that WotC isn't putting out more material for the game. So you're demanding higher-priced product rather than just picking up cheaper, PDFd, already available material *precisely* because you want the D&D name slapped on it. So of course they're going to charge you more than just a couple quid for it, because you're demanding to pay for it.

 

[Elf Witch]

I like hardbacks as opposed to paperbacks they last longer. And yes I reuse mine. Even if you don't use them a lot I have found that just moving them when I move has caused wear and tear on many paperback gaming books. Yet my hardbacks that have seen a lot of use are still holding up.

One of the things I like about Pazio is that you can get both a paper copy and a PDF of APs. I read through the actual book at home and then use the PDF to run the game. I print out what I need and I can write notes and highlight what I need. It gives me the best of both worlds.

I did feel sticker shock over the Dragon of Tyranny books. I think they were overpriced for the content. If both had been together for 30 or even higher I don't thin it would have felt like such a overpriced product.