D&D 5E Battlemap Vs. Theater of the Mind

[iserith]

Some systems are just designed to be slow. If it gives more choices, more options, more reactions and interactions and more hit points then it is going to take more time.

I take the stance that the oft mentioned "analysis paralysis" is a bunch of hooey. It's a choice to be indecisive. It's also a choice to always resolve a situation by grinding hit points down to 0. We don't have to choose to be or do these things.

 

[iserith]

Then again, I imagine a truly and horrendously slow player would cause delays no matter what. A bit of a weakest chain situation, then? If isereth concludes that it's the players slowing things down and Shasarak concludes it's not... that probably says something about their respective gaming groups.

What I see, in any gaming system, are players that act decisively and players that hem and haw. At my table, when your turn in the spotlight is up, you act immediately, choose to delay your turn, or ask for advice that you are obligated to take (presuming someone's not joking). A turn is for acting; off-turn is the time to think about what to do. When players and DM adopt this stance, the game runs very fast indeed including those systems that some people call "slow."

 

[Ricochet]

I take the stance that the oft mentioned "analysis paralysis" is a bunch of hooey. It's a choice to be indecisive. It's also a choice to always resolve a situation by grinding hit points down to 0. We don't have to choose to be or do these things.

I think it's more mental than that actually. Some people (and I have gamed with a few) simply cannot accept not knowing every minute detail before taking what they will weigh as their best possible choice. Be it asking twenty questions or counting every which way to get from square A to B most effectively. They will make a decision in time, but boy oh boy does it take a while, and they are being the opposite of indecisive imo. One person I know actually has been through some treatment which has unfoexcacerbated this issue even more. He will get angry and frustrated if he doesn't get to weigh every option. So in my gaming circle at least, it certainly exists (though that last case is a rarity, of course, and most people who weigh everything can be prompted by a GM to "Get going already!" and will then do whatever they have analyzed as the best at that point in time during their deliberations).

 

[Ricochet]

What I see, in any gaming system, are players that act decisively and players that hem and haw. At my table, when your turn in the spotlight is up, you act immediately, choose to delay your turn, or ask for advice that you are obligated to take (presuming someone's not joking). A turn is for acting; off-turn is the time to think about what to do. When players and DM adopt this stance, the game runs very fast indeed including those systems that some people call "slow."

Quite true. This is the approach in my games too. Certain players really don't like that though (which weeds out who you do RPGs with and who you do casual luck-based boardgames with little decision-making with ).
When I'm not DM though, I tend to quickly leave such games or try and adapt them into my preferred and faster playstyle.

 

[Shasarak]

I take the stance that the oft mentioned "analysis paralysis" is a bunch of hooey. It's a choice to be indecisive. It's also a choice to always resolve a situation by grinding hit points down to 0. We don't have to choose to be or do these things.

Of course you can choose to be indecisive.

But why choose to be indecisive when you have so many other options to look at first - no point rushing to conclusions and just choosing the first option that you think of!

 

[iserith]

I think it's more mental than that actually. Some people (and I have gamed with a few) simply cannot accept not knowing every minute detail before taking what they will weigh as their best possible choice. Be it asking twenty questions or counting every which way to get from square A to B most effectively. They will make a decision in time, but boy oh boy does it take a while, and they are being the opposite of indecisive imo. One person I know actually has been through some treatment which has unfoexcacerbated this issue even more. He will get angry and frustrated if he doesn't get to weigh every option. So in my gaming circle at least, it certainly exists (though that last case is a rarity, of course, and most people who weigh everything can be prompted by a GM to "Get going already!" and will then do whatever they have analyzed as the best at that point in time during their deliberations).

Which I think speaks to my point that it ain't the system - it's the players. Barring some kind of unfortunate condition, players can choose to spend their time off-turn planning and act when the spotlight falls on them. Oftentimes, that's several minutes which is plenty of time to come up with a Plan A and Plan B (in case something changes to foil your Plan A just before your turn is up). The biggest time vampires in any game are players that are not prepared to act when their turn is up, for whatever reason.

 

[Ricochet]

Which I think speaks to my point that it ain't the system - it's the players. Barring some kind of unfortunate condition, players can choose to spend their time off-turn planning and act when the spotlight falls on them. Oftentimes, that's several minutes which is plenty of time to come up with a Plan A and Plan B (in case something changes to foil your Plan A just before your turn is up). The biggest time vampires in any game are players that are not prepared to act when their turn is up, for whatever reason.

Oh I agree completely. On the point of this topic though, I will say that such players tend to take even longer when using a battle map versus TotM. Perhaps many TotM DM's are better at cutting through their need for control, or perhaps they simply cannot align all their options without the visual aid to allow maximizing. I don't know really, and I might be way off. Again, this is just what I've experienced myself at tables.

Interesting debate though, and I will definitely ask some of my uhmmm "hesitant" friends about the how's and why's of their gaming when next I see them! I might provide an update if I can get some answers.

 

[Grainger]

If my players were interested enough to take an hour to talk to the Prince (and it wasn't a lot of ummmmm and uhhhhhh) I'd be so happy.

Why would you use a battle mat for a non-combat encounter?

 

[Bayonet]

Have to weigh in on the battlemat side. I like a physical and visual representation of the action, and I like thinking about what terrain features I can use, and how. TotM works well for small encounters and for the build-up leading up to the fight, but it can get confusing pretty quickly, especially if players are distracted.

 

[The Human Target]

Why would you use a battle mat for a non-combat encounter?

Uhhhhh what?

I wouldn't.

Actually that's not true. If the PCs wanted to pull off some sort of caper or plan in the throne room while talking to the Prince I might.