D&D 5E (2014) I believe a slow and light product release can cause more harm in the long run.

[HobbitFan]

I can understand the slow release schedule. Sorta.
I don't get doubling down on hardback campaign adventures to the exclusion of other stuff.

 

[Jester David]

I'm not interested in the game being playable with just the core three. While my group and I like the 5th edition ruleset, we mainly play it because it's the edition that is currently supported. The 2nd edition rules are our favourite so if it was down to the minimum I need to "play" the game, then we would go back to that edition.

Also, when ever I post something about the product release not being enough, you come back with the 4th edition schedule? You are comparing gluttony to famine. I have been around for all editions so I know what "bloat" is.

Funny you bring up 2e. I played that for years and years with no real accessories. I eventually bought a few, but they never actually saw play. They were mostly for personal reading, and might as well have been for a different game system.

 

[Jester David]

You might well be right. Actually, even WotC don't know that their current slow and light approach will work.

But they do know that the previous fast release schedule doesn't work (see Mearls' tweet to that effect). They know that it's okay for a year or two, but then the game saturates and it's time for 3.5e/Essentials/whatever. So, having discovered what doesn't work, they're now trying something else. That may not work either... but at least there's a chance.

If the release schedule is too fast, by the time they realize this the damage is already done. A too slow release schedule is much easier to fix. I imagine they're starting slow and seeing if they need to release more content or if things are fine.

And, FWIW, like you I would prefer a rather quicker release schedule, or rather I'd like some sort of content more regularly. Though, for me, a single measure could fix an awful lot: bring back the e-magazines. They don't even need to fill them with stuff that I would use forever and ever (Dragon was unusual amongst magazines in doing that), but some sort of regular issue of stuff would be ideal. IMO, of course.

I'd like more content as well. But I know the strong desire for content is a short term desire that is quickly satiated. It sucks to wait but it might work better long term.
Personally, 3rd Party Products would do more for me than the magazines. An OGL - or even a robust fan policy - would solve all kinds of problems by permitting people to produce and distribute content that doesn't bloat the official game.

 

[fba827]

Previous version editions hit exhaustion with the amount of product churned out at a faster release schedule

Surveys showed people preferred slower releases (probably to avoid aforementioned exhaustion/fatigue) - it was mentioned in one of mearls' web postings when they were showing survey results over a couple posts

Regardless of release speed, if you're not interested in group of products (as was your example) then the speed won't change your lack of interest, you'll simply not be interested in 10 products over the year rather than not interested in one or two products in a year and that is even more wasteful and fruitless for wotc and will kill the edition way faster than anything else.


So I would counter argue to you that it isn't the SPEED of releases that you're concerned about but the TYPE of releases not appealing to you - it sounds more like you don't like the adventure based focusing release model and want releases that are more generalized for the broader appeal to grab your attention rather than focused on a story you don't find appealing.

and that's fine if it's what you prefer. But personally speaking - at least for now - I prefer this type of release schedule and these types of releases. Time may change that but for now it's my preference.



(Typed on tablet, apologies for random spelling snafus)

 

[delericho]

I can understand the slow release schedule. Sorta.
I don't get doubling down on hardback campaign adventures to the exclusion of other stuff.

Part of it is that adventures are, in some sense, disposable - you play it once, and you're basically done. Whereas any supplement, even a Campaign Setting Guide, will be filled with a fairly significant amount of player-side material. It gets added to the game and is thereafter part of it forever (well, until the edition cycle). That is, adventure paths don't contribute to bloat, where almost any other thing does.

("Ah but," you say, "what about the free PDF campaign guide for PotA. Doesn't that also contribute to bloat?" Yes, yes it does, but for two things. Firstly, I suspect that the next Path's free PDF campaign guide will have a decent amount of repeated material, and I also suspect that the Adventurer's League rules for the next path will probably not allow material from the PotA path. In other words, while it adds a little to the game, it won't add a huge amount. Though, even so, the game would still bloat - though over decades rather than a couple of years.)

If the release schedule is too fast, by the time they realize this the damage is already done. A too slow release schedule is much easier to fix. I imagine they're starting slow and seeing if they need to release more content or if things are fine.

True. Of course, with their current staff levels, it's not like they can produce that many more books anyway. And the last thing we want is for them to recruit a bunch of staff and churn out half a dozen books out without proper planning. Even if they do decide to speed up the process, we won't see the results of that for at least a year.

Personally, 3rd Party Products would do more for me than the magazines. An OGL - or even a robust fan policy - would solve all kinds of problems by permitting people to produce and distribute content that doesn't bloat the official game.

Honestly, I suspect the complaints about bloat would be as bad if they were caused by 3rd party OGL materials as with 'official' materials. After all, to a certain extent they're already absurd: if you don't like having that much material, you don't need to buy or use it!

Having said that, an OGL would indeed fill the gap for me almost as well as resuming the mags. Though I'm not holding my breath for either of them.

 

[delericho]

Regardless of release speed, if you're not interested in group of products (as was your example) then the speed won't change your lack of interest, you'll simply not be interested in 10 products over the year rather than not interested in one or two products in a year and that is even more wasteful and fruitless for wotc and will kill the edition way faster than anything else.


So I would counter argue to you that it isn't the SPEED of releases that you're concerned about but the TYPE of releases not appealing to you

While that's true, bear in mind that a fuller release schedule allows for more variety of content. If they produce two books a year, that means they can do any two of splatbook, campaign guide, or adventure. If they do twelve books a year, they can do multiples of each. You're much more likely to find something you are interested in when using the latter model.

I doubt the OP is suggesting that he wants 12 adventures per year instead of the current (suspected) 2!

 

[pming]

Hiya!

I should have used the title as my opening but here goes anyway.

I believe releasing products lightly and slowly is going to cause a lot of people to become extremely critical, angry, and a bit selfish.

Let's think about it for a moment. Let's say you buy the three corebooks and you want to continue from there. Well the next product comes out and it's not something you are interested in. Okay no bother. I will just wait for the next one. Well next one comes out a few months later and it's not something you are interested in. Okay, keep calm and just be patient. Possibly one other product comes out that year! Still not somthing I am interested in. A whole year has gone by and nothing else I am interested in has come out and I am starting to get a bit annoyed. I begin really hanging on every word from Wizards because I am product starved. I hear they are doing great and yet I'm left with only the core three I started with. I hear they are only planning to release maybe two products a year and I'm left feeling like I bought into a product that isn't going to see much support. I hear about an MMO but I don't have time to play it and with what little free time I have, I would rather spend that playing some D&D at the table with my mates. Then I hear about this new Alice in Wonderland setting and I get start to get angry and feel a bit of selfishness come on because I hear they are on a limited release plan and instead of getting a setting I want, they are doing a setting I don't want which leaves me waiting even longer. I start to feel this strong urge to get what "I" want and not care of anyone else gets what they want. By this time I am hanging off a cliff here and I could go at any time. A few web articles come out and while they may put a little taste in my mouth, they are hardly enough to satisfy my hunger. Eventually I may get something two years later but by that time I am probably likely to have packed up and moved on to another system.

Why?

Not trying to be glib here, but...why? I can say that I am sort of in the same camp as you. I was looking forward to being able to plonk down money for a new 5e book "if I wanted to". I haven't paid consistently for any D&D "game product" since 1e was still alive and kicking.

That said, I (we; me and my group) have been happily chugging along with our 1e campaign for 20+ years in various forms (and I've been running it for 34+ years...but with other folks the first decade and a half sans one person who's been with me for almost the whole run).

The 5e core three are, honestly, "the game". Everything after that is gravy. It may be nice to have more choice, but it is hardly required for the game to fourish. I do, however, think they need to find some way to keep it's name popping up in magazines, webzines, websites, forums, blogs, etc...and not in a negative way like "5e is gonna die because of no product!" kinda ways. If some sort of OGL would make 3pp feel better (like their mommy and daddy reassuring them that there are no monsters hiding under the bed), then WotC needs to get on that. Take the current OGL and tweek it a bit to reflect the new 5e rules and anything else WotC really wants out/in it and let the market take over. Or even a "standard, boilerplate-style" license that someone can download from their site, read it over, adjust and sent back to WotC. WotC could read it, tweek it as they feel they need to, and send it back. If both agree to all the changes...license granted for that product or whatever and off ya go! Although the latter would take a LOT more time, effort and money...

As for your "hunger for new content"... I feel you are going to be disappointed. Personally, I also hunger for new 5e content...but I can wait for stuff to come out. I don't have to have new stuff to play my game. In fact, since 5e's release, the only 'official' 5e stuff I've played/used has been the first half of the Lost Mines of Phandelver (they never got past Thundertree). The core three books are all we've needed.

One of the great things about 5e is is ability to adapt previous editions to itself. Hell, adapting from "similar games" is dirt simple. I've used an OSRIC adventure, a 1e AD&D adventure, two Labyrinth Lord adventures, and a 3.5e/DCC adventure. All have worked without a hitch, and all done pretty much "on the fly" (re: no hours and hours of converting needed).

Not having "official" 5e stuff does nothing but save my pocketbook from pain and suffering, really. Oh, and maybe it keeps 5e from being mentioned/reviewed a little bit more. But honestly, I think people (you included) need to just sit down, take a deep breath, and relax. Smell the roses, watch the clouds roll by and just enjoy what's in front of you. Yes, we can see the speck on the horizon that is the WotC Books coming towards us and a very slow walking pace. But it still coming. Until they get here, look at what you have...40+ years of D&D content to choose from. Life is too short to spend it harping on stuff you don't have. Look at what you do have and what other's don't. I think you'll appreciate it more (re: appreciate the slower release schedule).

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Jester David]

Honestly, I suspect the complaints about bloat would be as bad if they were caused by 3rd party OGL materials as with 'official' materials. After all, to a certain extent they're already absurd: if you don't like having that much material, you don't need to buy or use it!

Having said that, an OGL would indeed fill the gap for me almost as well as resuming the mags. Though I'm not holding my breath for either of them.

3PP are a little easier to ignore than official products. It's more up to the DM to allow than to ban.
Plus, 3PP can be a bit more diverse, since they can focus on smaller audiences. So you can get the 2-3 products you really want rather than a few that are "close enough".
And small 3PP are less a burden on game stores and won't scare away new or casual players with a wall of books.

But even if a full OGL is never released a better fan policy would help, allowing people to freely post adventures and content for free without worry of lawsuit or C+D.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm not interested in the game being playable with just the core three. While my group and I like the 5th edition ruleset, we mainly play it because it's the edition that is currently supported. The 2nd edition rules are our favourite so if it was down to the minimum I need to "play" the game, then we would go back to that edition.

And you can do that, and it would be just fine. Due to Dndclassics, now may possibly be an even better era to be playing AD&D2 than the 1990s was. There's a ton of stuff that was kind of hard to get back then but is readily-available now.

And on that note, I'm going to go buy Practical Planetology (4.99) and Lost Ships (9.99) now...

 

[zago]

I think the OP's statement is likely the opposite of what is to happen. Of course, I have some faith that the quality they started with, will be sustained. If that's the case, then there is some short term frustration as we adjust to the schedule, but a long term gain as we begin to recieve much higher quality materials. I don't think its reasonable to have high quality standards (even with a much larger staff or whatever) on a rapid release schedule. Of course this is still something they need to demonstrate.